Oh my bad, it’s an akebi (Android app that runs off jisho) issue. I might report it to the maker
God, I would have been dead before e-dictionaries
Oh my bad, it’s an akebi (Android app that runs off jisho) issue. I might report it to the maker
God, I would have been dead before e-dictionaries
I couldn’t tell what conjugation(s) was going on in this sentence: 来てくれたんでしょう
My best guess was something like “kept being able to come, right?”
~てくれる is a grammar point, meaning to do ~ for someone.
In this specific instance, it’s a little difficult to convey the nuance. It implies that his coming by is also a positive thing for 田山, as the speaker. He didn’t literally come as a favor for her, but that phrasing would imply that she feels like his coming by is a good thing for her. In this case, I think for her it’s a good thing because (spoilers if you haven’t realized already) as 山田, she wasn’t able to cheer him up, but she’s now got another chance as 田山
Were I to try and translate this to English and maybe hope to get a similar vibe, I might word it as, “You took the trouble (てくれた) to come, didn’t you? (でしょう)”
As an aside, if you are unsure about that ん, it is a crushed up explanatory の.
Page 43:
Page 44:
I can’t make heads or tails of whom she’s referencing in these sentences. I understand the last part “Because you’ve been cheeky/impertinent” but is the part before “I won’t tell you what I told them”? She didn’t tell whom? or is it “I won’t tell you who told me”, or something else? I suppose this really comes down to me not properly understanding くれる and あげる even though I’ve already read this article…
These lines are in response to 佐々木 asking 「わざわざ伝えに来てくれたんじゃないの?」 a couple of pages ago, and then commenting on her apparent hurry and the hair.
「伝えてあげたのは…」 is a counterpart to the above line, with のは as a nominalizer. She is in a sense “giving” 佐々木 information about 山田 in this chapter.
And because 佐々木 was so なまいき, [教えてあげない」. I read this as she is just refusing to answer the question originally put out by 佐々木 as to why she’s わざわざ coming to 伝え these things in the first place.
On page 36 (I think) of the physical book, as Sasaki is leaving the store, there is a speech bubble starting 山田の…where the furigana says あたし.
I understand the text etc; but what point is the author making by doing this?
If I remember correctly it’s furigana for 私 right? The mangaka probably wants to establish her speech pattern as feminine. If I’m misremembering, please share the speech bubble in full so we can review it more easily
The あたし on the 山田 is one of those cases where the furigana is used to create a double-meaning.
あたし is what she says outloud, but 山田 is used because (spoilers if you haven’t caught on yet) she is meaning her usual customer-facing 山田 persona. The implication then is that she will try again as 田山, which is what she does next.
You’ll see furigana used this way from time-to-time, as a way to introduce double-meanings.
My usual spiel in the ABBC threads (drop down arrow just above Grammar and Resources subheading) includes a section on this usage of furigana, if you want to do a bit more reading on it.
This is called 義訓 (ぎくん)
How do we know that あたし is what she said, and 山田is unspoken, and not the other way around?
First time reading manga, perhaps this is obvious to everyone else. Sorry.
あたし is furigana for 山田
Because in most cases, somebody would not refer to themselves with their own name, and more generally, it’s just more common that what is spoken outloud is the furigana while the kanji is the “double-meaning.”
The Househusband and Tales of examples that show up in that link I posted demonstrate that, but you’d also notice it in anime (particularly anything magic/skill heavy, so fantasy/shounen/isekai)
A reverse situation to this one shows up (where the characters do say their names) in シャドーハウス pretty much constantly:
Character’s name is サラ, but the kanji 私 is used. All of the Shadow characters share this speech quirk.
There is only one manga I have seen that appears to have the reverse, where speech is shown in kanji and intended meaning in the furigana, so I am pretty confident in assuming the furigana to be what is spoken here.
Also, never apologize for having questions! Even if you think they might be silly, it’s always better to ask. It helps people who are answering by giving us an opportunity to review our knowledge, and sometimes enlightens us to something we may have misread/missed a nuance on, and it helps everyone around who might have the same question, but be too shy to ask (a situation I definitely was in myself for some time. )
I feel like it’s generally true that the furigana is what gets “said”, but I definitely have seen some exceptions. Kind of a context thing for which is “said” and which is “meant” I think, especially when it gets used for comedic effect. But, I definitely agree in this section that she’s saying あたし and meaning 山田 as a way to indicate her intentions to the reader without sounding weird speaking to her coworker
But like, with the way of the househusband example, even if it was flipped I think it would still be pretty obvious from context that he’s saying ヤッパ by the reactions around him
although, these aren’t with kanji, just playing with the furigana slot more generally so maybe it’s a related but different thing, almost like a parenthetical
but I feel like I’ve seen maybe like [alternative kanji form] with [common kanji form] in furigana before.
Yeah, not quite the same situation, but I’ve seen this (and posted this example) before, where the character is very 厨二 and so you end up seeing a lot of this kinda thing, where one thing is said (理想郷), but since the story is from her POV, you get to see the furigana that tells you she means あの場所 (next page gives the context for what place is meant). A large portion of the manga includes situations like this, though this is just the earliest example of kanji as furigana in it (but not the earliest example of 義訓 in it. It’s actually more common for there to be 義訓 than actual furigana in this manga )
Thank you all
@anon99047008 , @javerend : Wow. I’m feeling like I just learned about a whole new world of furigana usage I never knew existed.
For a moment there, I wondered if she’d been about to tell him THE secret but reconsidered and used his cheekiness as an excuse to postpone the reveal.
Anyway, it’s kinda nice to see their relationship develop at such a nice, even pace. And so wholesome, too. She’s admitted to being worried about him (albeit incognito) and he’s apparently established smoking with Tayama as his new source of healing. Before, it was always Plan B for nights where Yamada wasn’t at the register. Now he went looking for Tayama even though he already got a dose of Yamada smile. And she literally let her hair down.
It can be intimidating when you first come across it, but I figure being aware of it earlier is better.
I have told the story before, but the example I posted with the あの場所 as furigana for 理想郷 was one of the first manga I attempted on my own before discovering the book clubs here were a thing.
I was very soundly put in my place (or maybe not too soundly, since, as @TobiasW can attest, I like to pick things that are well above my weight class in Japanese and just force my way through).
Either way, knowing to expect shenanigans early meant that when I came across less extreme examples (in the Househusband book club first, and some games later), I was already primed for that and less confused about different furigana.
That experience is why I talk about it in my opening spiel of the ABBC; being prepared for it makes it less of a slap in the face later.
Plus, if I remember correctly, there is at least one instance of it in Horimiya, so it’s doubly-important it got mentioned in that club. The week when we come across it, I’ll be sure to post a reminder about it also.
It’s still nowhere as extreme as that initial example, though.
Just one more add-on to the 義訓 convo: It’s also a phenomenon I’ve observed a lot in song lyrics! For a lot of songs when you try reading the lyrics along while listening you will realise that the lyrics often use “wrong” kanji.
I guess it’s just supposed to give an artistic/poetic feel to the lyrics which is nice but as a language learner it’s confusing as hell… Even happened to me before that I read along to a song and memorised a kanji with a wrong pronunciation because that was what was actually said in the song
And Week 4 is now live!
「元気ないけど大丈夫ですか?」って心配…
Not 100% sure why this is in quotations here. Is it something someone said or is it just for emphasis?