No. 彼は少し疲れてるみたいだ is “it seems like he’s a bit tired”.
The Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar unhelpfully hides ‘mitai’ in their entry ‘yōda’, but they say it is “{V/Adj(i)} inf みたいだ” or “{Adj(na) stem / N} { 0 / だった } みたいだ”, which is to say you can use it with verbs, i-adjectives, na-adjectives and nouns.
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Thanks - sincerely!
I like to understand things intuitively, though, and break them down to their essence. I’m terrible with formal terminology but reasonably strong with base principles.
I’ve still not seen みたい used without something functioning as what to my mind is a noun, a “thing”, or “thing in a state of being” (like a gerund in English).
I truly enjoy learning, though, which is mostly about having my understanding proven wrong. I’d love to see an example that disproves my theory.
It’s the same in English. “Looks like eat” doesn’t work but “looks like he’s eating” does.
On a real keyboard now…
Yes, which I why I think we are agreeing with each other. This is an example with a noun. In fake pidgin you’d say “look-like tired-he”. (I’m going to try to diagram it!)
If you can use みたい with normal verbs rather than only gerund-like verbs, then it might be possible to use 疲れる or 食べる rather than the ている forms, etc. I’d love to see an example.
This is how my brain parses this example:
That is, the modifiers affect 彼 not みたいだ.
It absolutely isn’t, but maybe we should take this to another thread rather than junking up the senryu thread with an extended grammar discussion?
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Oh, no! I created this thread for exactly these types of language-learning discussions.
If you’d like to continue, please do!
If I’m reading this site correctly, maybe this is a better diagram:
I’m unsure why you feel 彼は少し疲れてるみたいだ absolutely isn’t an example sentence with a noun. If you’re up for it, can you please expand on what you mean?
Please don’t interpret my questions as in any way hostile, I’m almost always in the wrong but truly am trying to understand.
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I believe the fake pidgin would be more like: “That guy. Little tired seemslike is.” 
I wonder if you’re getting stuck on gerunds because in English they take the same form as the present continuous.
In Japanese, V+ている isn’t a gerund, it’s the present continuous.
Not quite. You’d need a pedestal. Scroll down to the part about diagramming infinitive phrases. I think that’s the closest analogue for what’s going on here since you basically have (誰かが)少し疲れてる as a whole phrase modifying みたい and rising out of the middle of 彼は^みたいだ.
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Love it! I forgot we had somone familiar with pidgin! 
Oh! Understood.
My understanding is that in English it’s words like “is” or “am” that distinguish the two: “I like eating” (gerund) vs. “I am eating” (present continuous).
The reason I’ve been saying “gerund like” is that, to my brain, “疲れてる[彼]” (the combined verb+object) functions like a noun in Japanese.
Surely in this case it’s the noun 彼 that is presently and continuously tired (poor guy)?
I think we all agree that 彼 is required for this sentence to work (even if only implied).
Clearly there’s disagreement but I’m still unclear about what.
If you’re able to diagram what you mean, it might help me. I’ve little doubt my diagram is wrong! (laugh)
I think you’re saying the bottom bits belong on the right, but that would seem pretty strange to me. I’m also completely confused how 誰かが can be part of it since 彼 is actually part of the sentence.
Maybe the disagreement boils down to this:
彼は少し疲れてるみたいだ
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Interpretation A (Yoda-speak): “As for him, tired-looking is [he]” (tired associated with みたい).
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Interpretation B (my brain): “As for him, [he] looks a little tired” (tired associated with an implied 彼)
Either way, I don’t think this example sentence disproves my contention that you still need something noun-like for みたい to work. There’s an implied “he” in both interpretations.
But that doesn’t mean my contention is correct. There might still be a みたい sentence with nothing noun-like and only verbs, but this isn’t one.
Absent a counter-example, though, I’ll stick with my contention.
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OK, but details under the cut to make it easy to skip over for those who don't care
Well, it’s got a noun in it, but the noun is not what connects to みたい – it’s the topic. I never did sentence diagrams and am not sure how well they fit Japanese grammar anyway, which is sharply different. I like Jay Rubin’s approach – start at the beginning of the sentence and see what you have. So:
彼 – a noun
彼は – ah, this noun is our topic. So we have a topic phrase. The noun is now fully connected to something and won’t be interacting with the rest of the sentence except via our topic phrase. The topic is (usually) going to connect to the final predicate in the sentence.
彼は少し – 少し is an adverb, so this will be connecting to the verb when we get to it. We’re currently “holding” a topic-phrase and an adverb.
彼は少し疲れてる – here’s our verb! Now, the adverb doesn’t necessarily have to connect to this verb, but it’s a good bet. (Besides, if we cheat and look ahead we know this is the only verb.) So we have “[he is] a bit tired”. That’s a verb phrase. Strictly, it has an unspecified subject; subject-same-as-topic is the obvious assumption. So now we have a topic 彼は and a verb-phrase 少し疲れてる. The verb-phrase almost always is going to hook up to the next thing in the sentence, incidentally.
彼は少し疲れてるみたい – and here’s our みたい “looks like, appears like”. The only thing we have in our hands is the topic and the verb-phrase, so the verb-phrase has to connect to みたい (which is fine, per the DoBJG). Technically みたい is a na-adjective (you can have a 子供みたいなけんか – a childish fight – where みたい modifies the following noun けんか). So now we are “holding” the topic (still) and this na-adjective phrase. Everything else in the sentence has been absorbed into one of those.
彼は少し疲れてるみたいだ – hey, it’s our old friend the copula, だ. So this whole sentence is the familiar form “topicはna-adjectiveだ”, just like “花はきれいだ” “as for flowers, they’re pretty”. In our case, we have “as for him, looks like [he] is a bit tired”, or more naturally translated, “it looks like he’s a bit tired”.
It’s the verb-phrase that is attaching to みたい (it has nowhere else to go and it must link up to something).
By the way, when you say:
I think this is related to why you’re going wrong. 疲れてる is not modifying 彼. One of the few Iron Rules of Japanese grammar is that the thing being modified always comes after the modifier, not before it. 彼 is in the topic, it is not the head-word (modified thing) of any of this.
疲れてる彼 – this is a noun phrase, where 疲れてる modifies 彼 to tell us what kind of ‘him’ we have. It does behave like a noun when it’s part of a bigger sentence.
彼が疲れてる – this is a verb phrase, where the ga-marked element gives us more detail about what kind of 疲れてる action is taking place. It behaves like a verb when it’s part of a bigger sentence.
Edit: two contrasting sentences that might help:
雪が降っているみたいだ “it looks like it’s snowing” (I just looked out the window in winter and…)
降っている雪みたいだ “it looks like falling snow” (maybe I’m looking at falling cherry blossom)
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Those are awesome examples of an extremely subtle distinction. Both involving snow (a noun) falling. 
I need to run out for a meeting but may have follow on questions/comments when I return.
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I’d be happier with them if “降っている雪みたい” had more google hits, mind you…
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Or even a senryu!
動いてる・みたいの主語は・この亡馬
(I suspect 亡馬 isn’t a real word, but based on recent poems it made me grin, anyway.)
Thoughts and comments
There is also an implied です after みたい. To me, that is the primary verb in this sentence, not 疲れる.
To me, the basic overall structure of the sentence is「◯みたいだ」which means “looks like ◯” where ◯ is a noun-like “thing” (technical term). It still seems to me that the entire first part of the sentence goes in the circle, not just the verb.
I think you’re saying 疲れてるみたい belongs together more than 彼は疲れてる. But surely 彼 is being modified — who else is looking or being a little 疲れてる?
In this instance, my brain thinks that the “verb phrase” 彼は少し疲れてる including the topic/subject belongs together and is what is in the ◯ of 「◯みたいだ」.
If I understand your point correctly, you’re saying that the basic structure is 「彼は◯だ」and 少し疲れてるみたい goes in this ◯.
If I’ve stated your point correctly, is either interpretation really wrong? If there’s a difference, it’s pretty minute.
Regardless, we both agree that this form of みたい is utterly different than the inflected 見る usage like 入れてみたい which is about trying something rather than looking like something.
Those examples are interesting, but have extremely subtle, nearly identical, meanings.
Still, I understand your point that in the the first sentence みたい mostly “operates on” 降っている, while in the second it more obviously operates on 雪 (a specific type of snow, 降っている雪).
To me, though, みたい operates on the entire first part of either sentence, with the distinction being only a slight change in emphasis (between snow and falling). It’s very similar to the distinction between は and が (which explains the length of this thread — I’ve seen an entire book on that topic).[1]
If I’ve interpreted your stance correctly, I hope this discussion has run it’s course. If I’m still misunderstanding something, please correct me.
Otherwise, I think both stances are valid, but I’m going to continue thinking that みたい operates on nouns or phrases that basically act like nouns (it’s easier for my pea-brain if I think about it that way).
Bonus round: explain the difference between 雪は降っているみたいだ and 雪が降っているみたいだ！ ↩︎
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Yeah, you can look at it like that – whether you think the topic is or is not ‘inside’ the ◯ doesn’t matter. The important thing I’m trying to get across is that in this sentence ◯ is not a noun-like thing; it’s a verb-like thing. (This is true both grammatically and meaning-wise.) Anyway, I don’t think I’ll be able to explain any better than my earlier attempts; I would encourage you though to go and have a look at the stuff on ‘mitai’ in your preferred grammar reference sources, for an alternate view.
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Ah! I think I finally understand your point. Thanks for bearing with me.
Interesting. Because the “verb phrase” in the circle includes a subject, 彼, I was thinking it was noun-like, but this is apparently incorrect. I still don’t understand why it’s verb-like, but your knowledge of grammar is well beyond mine, so I’ll take your word for it. I’ll have to ponder this on my own.
I’ll stop torturing everyone and accept the terminology.
I’ll publish the next senryu shortly.
Tuesday, August 23, 2022
Previous senryu
- 亡夫の靴へふと足入れてみたくなり
ぼうふのくつ・へふとあしいれて・みたくなり
This sudden urge / to slip into my / dead husband’s shoes
Notes:
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ふと〜 is an interesting word that means by chance, unexpectedly or suddenly, or “out of the blue”. A sentence like ふと思い出す means that something suddenly occurred to you.
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〜みたくなり means wanting to see/try something, or wanting to attempt/experience (literally “become desirous of seeing”).
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There is an interesting custom in the Izu islands and elsewhere called 足入れ婚 where the bride-to-be moves in with the husband-to-be and family temporarily, before the formal marriage ceremony. The consensus of the group is that this is a red herring, though, and unrelated to this senryu.
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Apologies for the long diversion into a minor grammatical point. To summarize:
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There are two forms of みたい.
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One, as in this senryu, is a form of 見る and indicates a desire to perform some action: 靴に入れてみたい — I want to insert [my feet] into shoes. Since this usage is an inflection of a simple verb, it can be further modified: 靴に入れてみたくなりました.
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The other form means that something resembles something else: 猫みたいだ — It looks (or acts) like a cat. The latter version never inflects (like みたく). It’s always simply みたい.
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Further, in a sentence of the form ◯みたいだ indicating that something resembles something else, the part inside the circle can be a simple noun or an entire sub-phrase. A “verb phrase” like 彼は疲れてる is technically verb-like despite my brain wanting to think of it as a “thing” (noun-like).
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Please correct me if I’ve got any of this wrong or if further clarification is warranted.
I won’t do this for every senryu, but this one’s grammar was sufficiently interesting that I thought it worthwhile to diagram how my brain parses this sentence:
The basic sentence structure is that the implied subject “I” became something. They became “desirous of trying something”. They wanted to try inserting feet. What they wanted to insert into was shoes. Their late husband’s shoes. They suddenly (ふと) became desirous.
I’m curious to hear people’s thoughts about this sort of sentence diagramming. Is it at all useful?
Someone much smarter than me would have to figure out a formal rule system to handle all Japanese sentence-diagraming situations. I’m sure it would be different than English sentence diagramming, but I found it useful to apply English diagramming rules to this senryu. The diagram shows how my brain parsed this sentence.
Current senryu challenge
Volume: Seniors
- おねだりの孫の電話に陰の声
I think (hope?!) this one is pretty straightfoward!
My interpretation: I’m pretty sure it just means the grandchild’s voice changes when they want (are begging for) something!
Remember to please use the spoiler tag with your translation attempts! Also, please include the reading in kana with your submission.
Everyone is encouraged to participate, no matter your level! Questions and comments are as valued as translation submissions.
Please try not to be disappointed if your translation isn’t selected or if you disagree with the daily choice: the judge isn’t terribly consistent with his grading (and has awful taste!).
Online tools like dictionaries, sentence databases, and even AI translation engines are fair game and can be extremely helpful. Yomichan is particularly handy if you use the Chrome or Firefox browser. The 語源由来辞典 is also an excellent resource for researching the etymology of various words and expressions.
Here are the links to the 356 Japanese originals (spoiler free) and to the the spreadsheet with all the upcoming senryu as well as the translations to date.
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A hint of sorts, if you want one: 陰の声 appears to be a phrase with a meaning specific enough to appear in JJ dictionaries, if not JE.
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Yes, I think it’s saying the grandchild’s voice becomes announcer-like (perfect diction, polite) when they want something.
Hmm. I have a different interpretation…
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Maybe that they are trying to disguise what they really want? Speaking in a roundabout way? Or that they are trying to ask the grandparent for something without letting someone else know that they are asking?
I’m not sure I completely understand even with the Japanese definition. What’s your interpretation? I’m lost.
Well, I’m definitely not sure, but I’m thinking it’s something like the grandparent can tell the kid’s mother has just said “quit pestering your gran” or something though she can’t hear the mother herself – like the quiz show mystery voice the audience can hear but the contestant can’t.
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I’ll ask my wife to give me an example of 陰の声. Even reading the definition, I’m still not clear on how it would apply to this situation.
Apologies for a sixty year old reference,[1] but I’m imagining George Fennemen on Groucho’s “You Bet Your Life” quietly announcing the day’s “secret word” to the audience, out of earshot from the contestants.
Maybe it’s that they get SUPER clear and to-the-point, rather than the usual disinterested mumbling when talking to gran as you say.
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it was the first thing that came to mind ↩︎
おねだりの・まごのでんわに・かげのこえ
The voice in the back / of grand child’s pleading phone call, / sotto voce, guides him
Notes:
- 5-7-5, in order to cram the “sotto voce” in there.
- 陰の声 reminded me of 影武者 (かげむしゃ, Kurosawa’s movie about a warrior’s body double), and I initially thought that the senryu was about a “voice double” - i.e. someone imitating the grandchild’s voice.
Right. @pm215 's link to the dictionary entry sorted out that confusion quickly. - The second point of confusion was who the voice was addressing - the grandparent? the child? The position of the に particle clarified that confusion.
- Looks like the grandchild’s parents are using him as a lure to get the grandparent to do something - visit them, perhaps. Happens often enough.
- The English version sounds right, makes sens, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, is it one? After so many failed attempts, I know that in senryu-land one encounters many shockers, including: “this duck is no duck.” :sigh: とにかく、勉強になりました。
Lots of useful discussion (senryu and grammar related) around the previous entry. Thanks for the explanation.
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