๐Ÿ‘ป Week 1 10ๅˆ†ใงใ‚ˆใ‚ใ‚‹ใ“ใ‚ใ„่ฉฑใƒป10 minute Scary Stories (Absolute Beginner Book Club)

Thanks for your Help and the links. Itโ€™s feels much easier than Reading alone.

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Happy to help!

Absolutely agreed, the clubs on WK are a lifesaver :smiling_face:

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Hurrah, my first book club post! I think Iโ€™m going to have to take this slow because it felt even this one page was a lot of work, but I guess we have to start somewhere :laughing:

Since above there was already a discussion about the story-parts of page 5, Iโ€™d like to talk a bit about the definition part on the side.

Page 5: ใŠใ‘ใ‚„ Definition (Left-side sentence)

ใŠใ‘ใ‚„ใ€‚ใ€‚ใ€‚ใ€ŒใŠใ‘ใ€ ใฏ ๆฐดใชใฉใ‚’ ๅ…ฅใ‚Œใ‚‹ ๆœจใฎ ๅ…ฅใ‚Œใ‚‚ใฎใง ใใ‚Œใ‚’ ใคใใฃใฆ ใ†ใฃใŸใ‚Šใ€ใ—ใ‚…ใ†ใ‚Šใ—ใŸใ‚Šใ™ใ‚‹ ใ—ใ”ใจใŠ ใ™ใ‚‹ ไบบใ€‚

Soโ€ฆ that was a lot. I had to jump around a bit to figure out what was going on with this sentence. Iโ€™m not sure how I would be able to figure this out if it were read out loud with this word order :face_with_spiral_eyes:

I tried doing this sentence without looking up beforehand what an ใŠใ‘ใ‚„ was, to see if I could figure it out just from the Japanese.

So, going through the sentence bit by bitโ€ฆ

ใ€ŒใŠใ‘ใ€ ใฏ

As for anใ€ŒใŠใ‘ใ€โ€ฆ

ๆฐดใชใฉใ‚’ ๅ…ฅใ‚Œใ‚‹ ๆœจใฎ ๅ…ฅใ‚Œใ‚‚ใฎใง

I did have to look up ใฎใฉ, and I was happy that I made a good guess for ๅ…ฅใ‚Œใ‚‚ใฎ, a word I hadnโ€™t seen before, by thinking about it like ๅ…ฅใ‚Œใ‚‹ + ใ‚‚ใฎ

with a wooden container that holds things like water and so on

ใใ‚Œใ‚’ ใคใใฃใฆ ใ†ใฃใŸใ‚Š

I just learned about ใŸใ‚Š on bunpro so that was a fun coincidence! Iโ€™mโ€ฆ not so sure on ใ†ใฃใŸใ‚Š thoughโ€ฆ Is it supposed to be from ๆ‰“ใค? Like ๆ‰“ใฃใฆ? Or am I getting the wrong verb here?

things like making and hitting that thing

ใ—ใ‚…ใ†ใ‚Šใ—ใŸใ‚Šใ™ใ‚‹ ใ—ใ”ใจใ‚’ ใ™ใ‚‹ ไบบ

So here is the end of the ใŸใ‚Šใ€‚ใ€‚ใ€‚ใŸใ‚Šใ™ใ‚‹ and (:drum:) our subject with ไบบ I suppose? Such a long series of description!

โ€ฆ like doing repairs โ€ฆ a person does a job

So I guess putting that all together, something like:

A ใ€ŒใŠใ‘ใ‚„ใ€ is a person who does a job which involves things like making and hitting(?) a wooden container filled with things like water and doing repairs.

And looking it up now, an ใŠใ‘ใ‚„ is a โ€œbucket maker; well maker; cooper; hooperโ€‹โ€ according to jishoโ€ฆ so I think I got that from this description!

Please let me know if I made mistakes along the way here; Iโ€™m eager to learn.

(Though I feel like I need to take a nap though after parsing through that one sentence haha)

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:partying_face: Welcome!!

Definitely give yourself permission to go as slowly as you need to. If you finish behind schedule, thatโ€™s fine, there will still be people watching the threads to help out with grammar!

page 5

Awesome idea!! And you did a great job too.

Yeah, this is hard because thereโ€™s no kanji. I think itโ€™s ๅฃฒใ‚‹, to sell, being used here.

Yes, you got it!! These types of noun phrases are super common in Japanese. Always look out for that noun hiding at the end of a sentence. In English the noun comes first (a person who makes buckets) but in Japanese it comes last (a bucket-making person) and it can be quite a long phrase modifying the noun too, as youโ€™ve seen here.

You got it all, except for making and *selling :grinning:

Awesome job!

Well deserved nap :sleeping_bed: Then come back after the nap for the next sentence! :wink:

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Page 6, Sentence 1

ใซใ‚‡ใ†ใผใ†ใ‚’ ใ‚‚ใ‚‰ใˆใฐใ€ใŸในใ‚‚ใฎใŒ ใ‚‚ใ† ไธ€ไบบใถใ‚“ ใ‚ˆใ‘ใ„ใซ ใ‹ใ‹ใ‚‹ใ€‚

Summary

ใ‚‚ใ‚‰ใ† to receive
ใ‚‚ใ‚‰ใˆใฐ if he receives
If He receives a wife,
As for food already one-Person-Portion Takes too much.

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Huh, that was a surprisingly hard read! I bet after reading all the stories, my understanding will be way better :slight_smile:

After reading a bunch of beginner manga, like chi and yotsuba, with relative ease, this caught me by surprise. Iโ€™m not even sure why, the unusual/old-timey words? Unusual grammar patterns? More complex sentences? Lack of kanji for parsing?

Anyway, Iโ€™m thankful for this book and the bookclub :slight_smile: Reading half of the story, I get the feeling I have known the story when I was very young. So Iโ€™m very eager to find out how it ends :slight_smile:

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Hi everyone, this is my first post in the forum and my first book club. :grin:
I was very intimidated by the idea of consuming native Japanese content, and Iโ€™m very happy I can do it with you.

I just finished page 5, with your help it was very manageable. On my first go I interpreted the second sentence as:

Gosaku was very miserable because his wife still wasnโ€™t there.

But reading through the translation in this post made me understand exactly what I got wrong. Given that you would need to swap the first half of the sentence with the second half, and use โ€œใฎใงโ€ instead of โ€œใงโ€ as connecting particle.

P.S. I noticed that in the vocabulary sheet, the page numbers are offset by 1 from my book. Are pages numbered differently in the digital edition?

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Page 6 Sentence 2

ใ‚‚ใฃใŸใ„ใชใ„ ใ“ใจใ ใ€‚

Summary

ใ  = another Form of ใงใ™ (to be)

Itโ€™s a wasteful thing.

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I will try Page 6 Sentence 3:

ใ‚ใ—ใ‚’ใใ‚ใชใ„ใงใ€ใ‚ˆใใฏใŸใ‚‰ใใซใ‚‡ใ†ใผใ†ใŒใ€ใŠใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ‚ˆใ„ใŒใชใ‚ใ€‚

Translation

ใ‚ใ—ใ‚’ใใ‚ใชใ„ใงใ€ใ‚ˆใใฏใŸใ‚‰ใใซใ‚‡ใ†ใผใ†:

  • ใ‚ใ—ใ‚’ใใ‚ใชใ„ใง โ†’ does not eat (literally โ€œdoes not eat meals andโ€ฆโ€)
  • ใ‚ˆใใฏใŸใ‚‰ใ โ†’ works hard
  • ใซใ‚‡ใ†ใผใ† โ†’ wife
    Put together: A hard working wife who doesnโ€™t eat

ใŠใฃใŸใ‚‰ โ†’ ใŠใ‚‹ (to be, polite)๏ผ‹if โ†’if there were
ใ‚ˆใ„ โ†’ old fashioned form of ใ„ใ„, a.k.a. good/nice
ใชใ‚ โ†’ expression of hope

Everything put together:

daydreaming Wouldnโ€™t it be nice to have a hard working wife who doesnโ€™t eat?

ใใ•ใใ•ใ‚“, you surely got some strange priorities!

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Page 6 Sentence 3

ใ‚ใ—ใ‚’ ใใ‚ใชใ„ใง ใ‚ˆใ ใฏใŸใ‚‰ใ ใซใ‚‡ใ†ใผใ†ใŒใ€ใŠใฃใŸใ‚‰ ใ‚ˆใ„ใŒใชใ‚ใ€‚

Summary

ใ‚ใ—ใ‚’ ใใ‚ใชใ„ใง ใ‚ˆใ ใฏใŸใ‚‰ใ
donโ€™t eat meal and well working wife

ใŠใฃใŸใ‚‰ ใŠใ‚‹ if / when be
ใ‚ˆใ„ good
ใŒใชใ‚ would be nice if / i Wish there were

I donโ€™t understand how to put together the second half of the sentence.

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Yeah, I would say that reading prose and reading manga are pretty much separate skills, so Iโ€™m not surprised that this is more difficult! I think all the things you mentioned are a factor.

Also, re: old timey vocab- this story seems to be heavier on those turns of phrase so far. The second story didnโ€™t really have as much of that kind of stuff.

Yes! :man_dancing:

Welcome!!

Sounds like it. Iโ€™ve numbered the vocabulary sheet based on what I have in the digital edition, but I donโ€™t have the physical edition to compare.

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page 6

Close, but in this case ใ‚‚ใ†ไธ€ไบบใถใ‚“ would be more like โ€˜one more personโ€™s portionโ€™ If he gets a wife, one more personโ€™s portion would be too much.

You got it!

Naghus broke it down above, but you already had it! Just put what you wrote together, but backwards.

Wouldnโ€™t it be nice if there was/if I had a hardworking wife who doesnโ€™t eat?

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I meant only this part of the sentence. How does this translate to โ€œwouldnโ€™t it be nice if there was โ€ฆ / if I had โ€ฆโ€?

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page 6

ใŠใฃใŸใ‚‰ ใ‚ˆใ„ใŒใชใ‚

ใŠใ‚‹ - fancy form of ใ„ใ‚‹, to be, to exist, to have (of a wife/kids etc)

ใŸใ‚‰ - conditional
ใŸใ‚‰ (JLPT N4) | Bunpro

ใŠใฃใŸใ‚‰ - if there was

ใ‚ˆใ„ - good (another form of ใ„ใ„ )
ใŒใช - Particle indicating desire

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I was confused because jsho translated ใ‚ˆใ„ with โ€œgoodโ€ and ใŒใชใ‚ with โ€œit would be niceโ€. And โ€œgoodโ€ and โ€œniceโ€ have a similar meaning. This Sounds weird. Like a โ€œdoppelte Verneinungโ€.

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Yeah, it can be confusing when that kind of thing happens. The difference here is that ใ‚ˆใ„ is a word, meaning good. ใŒใช is a particle, not a word, so it has to do more with the โ€œfeelingโ€ of the sentence instead of literally translating to a word in the sentence. So think of it as

ใŠใฃใŸใ‚‰ใ‚ˆใ„ - literally โ€œit would be goodโ€

ใŒใชใ‚โ€ฆ. - adds a feeling of wishing for something

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Page 6 Sentence 4

ใใ‚“ใช ใ‘ใฃใ“ใ†ใช ใซใ‚‡ใ†ใผใ†ใŒใ€ใ„ใ‚‹ ใฏใšใฏ ใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“ใ€‚

Summary

That Kind of nice/splendid wife should Not exist.

โ€œใ„ใ‚‹ ใฏใšใฏ ใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“โ€

How is it possible to have ใ„ใ‚‹ and ใ‚ใ‚‹ in the Same Sentence? Does this ใ„ใ‚‹ really mean โ€œto beโ€? Why a ใฏ before the ใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“ and Not a ใŒ?

I donโ€™t understand the structure of this part of the sentence.

Finding the right Translation without the Kanji is really difficult.

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This is a good use of the vocab sheet! I made sure that the definitions in the vocab sheet match the context in the story.

page 6

Bunpro on ใฏใšใŒใชใ„:

ใฏใšใŒใชใ„ (JLPT N4) | Bunpro

This sentence is probably closer to 'Itโ€™s unlikely that this kind of splendid wife exists" Literally: There is no expectation that this kind of splendid wife exists.

Yep!

There are two parts to in the sentence. The main part that refers back to the subject is the ใฏใšใฏใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“ part. The subject is missing, but itโ€™s implied to be Gosaku, the speaker.

[ ใ‚ใŸใ—ใฏ ] โ€ฆ ใฏใšใฏใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“ใ€‚

( I ) donโ€™t expect thatโ€ฆ

What doesnโ€™t he expect?

ใใ‚“ใชใ‘ใฃใ“ใ†ใชใซใ‚‡ใ†ใผใ†ใŒใ„ใ‚‹ โ€ฆ ใฏใšใฏใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“ใ€‚

He doesnโ€™t expect that this kind of splendid wife exists.

I looked this up and found an answer on Hinative that said that ใŒ represents a stronger conviction while ใฏ is a bit weaker. So basically, it just has a different feeling from ใŒใ€‚

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So ใฏใšใŒใชใ„ or ใฏใšใฏใ‚ใ‚Šใพใ›ใ‚“ is a phrase that Something is improbable and the โ€œto existโ€ comes from the ใ„ใ‚‹ and Not from the ใ‚ใ‚‹.

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Is the ใ„ใ‚‹ a Part of the sentence before the Komma or after the Komma?

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