Thanks for your Help and the links. Itโs feels much easier than Reading alone.
Happy to help!
Absolutely agreed, the clubs on WK are a lifesaver ![]()
Hurrah, my first book club post! I think Iโm going to have to take this slow because it felt even this one page was a lot of work, but I guess we have to start somewhere ![]()
Since above there was already a discussion about the story-parts of page 5, Iโd like to talk a bit about the definition part on the side.
Page 5: ใใใ Definition (Left-side sentence)
ใใใใใใใใใใ ใฏ ๆฐดใชใฉใ ๅ ฅใใ ๆจใฎ ๅ ฅใใใฎใง ใใใ ใคใใฃใฆ ใใฃใใใใใ ใใใใใใใ ใใใจใ ใใ ไบบใ
Soโฆ that was a lot. I had to jump around a bit to figure out what was going on with this sentence. Iโm not sure how I would be able to figure this out if it were read out loud with this word order ![]()
I tried doing this sentence without looking up beforehand what an ใใใ was, to see if I could figure it out just from the Japanese.
So, going through the sentence bit by bitโฆ
ใใใใ ใฏ
As for anใใใใโฆ
ๆฐดใชใฉใ ๅ ฅใใ ๆจใฎ ๅ ฅใใใฎใง
I did have to look up ใฎใฉ, and I was happy that I made a good guess for ๅ ฅใใใฎ, a word I hadnโt seen before, by thinking about it like ๅ ฅใใ + ใใฎ
with a wooden container that holds things like water and so on
ใใใ ใคใใฃใฆ ใใฃใใ
I just learned about ใใ on bunpro so that was a fun coincidence! Iโmโฆ not so sure on ใใฃใใ thoughโฆ Is it supposed to be from ๆใค? Like ๆใฃใฆ? Or am I getting the wrong verb here?
things like making and hitting that thing
ใใ ใใใใใใใ ใใใจใ ใใ ไบบ
So here is the end of the ใใใใใใใใใ and (
) our subject with ไบบ I suppose? Such a long series of description!
โฆ like doing repairs โฆ a person does a job
So I guess putting that all together, something like:
A ใใใใใ is a person who does a job which involves things like making and hitting(?) a wooden container filled with things like water and doing repairs.
And looking it up now, an ใใใ is a โbucket maker; well maker; cooper; hooperโโ according to jishoโฆ so I think I got that from this description!
Please let me know if I made mistakes along the way here; Iโm eager to learn.
(Though I feel like I need to take a nap though after parsing through that one sentence haha)
Welcome!!
Definitely give yourself permission to go as slowly as you need to. If you finish behind schedule, thatโs fine, there will still be people watching the threads to help out with grammar!
page 5
Awesome idea!! And you did a great job too.
Yeah, this is hard because thereโs no kanji. I think itโs ๅฃฒใ, to sell, being used here.
Yes, you got it!! These types of noun phrases are super common in Japanese. Always look out for that noun hiding at the end of a sentence. In English the noun comes first (a person who makes buckets) but in Japanese it comes last (a bucket-making person) and it can be quite a long phrase modifying the noun too, as youโve seen here.
You got it all, except for making and *selling ![]()
Awesome job!
Well deserved nap
Then come back after the nap for the next sentence! ![]()
Page 6, Sentence 1
ใซใใใผใใ ใใใใฐใใในใใฎใ ใใ ไธไบบใถใ ใใใใซ ใใใใ
Summary
ใใใ to receive
ใใใใฐ if he receives
If He receives a wife,
As for food already one-Person-Portion Takes too much.
Huh, that was a surprisingly hard read! I bet after reading all the stories, my understanding will be way better ![]()
After reading a bunch of beginner manga, like chi and yotsuba, with relative ease, this caught me by surprise. Iโm not even sure why, the unusual/old-timey words? Unusual grammar patterns? More complex sentences? Lack of kanji for parsing?
Anyway, Iโm thankful for this book and the bookclub
Reading half of the story, I get the feeling I have known the story when I was very young. So Iโm very eager to find out how it ends ![]()
Hi everyone, this is my first post in the forum and my first book club. ![]()
I was very intimidated by the idea of consuming native Japanese content, and Iโm very happy I can do it with you.
I just finished page 5, with your help it was very manageable. On my first go I interpreted the second sentence as:
Gosaku was very miserable because his wife still wasnโt there.
But reading through the translation in this post made me understand exactly what I got wrong. Given that you would need to swap the first half of the sentence with the second half, and use โใฎใงโ instead of โใงโ as connecting particle.
P.S. I noticed that in the vocabulary sheet, the page numbers are offset by 1 from my book. Are pages numbered differently in the digital edition?
Page 6 Sentence 2
ใใฃใใใชใ ใใจใ ใ
Summary
ใ = another Form of ใงใ (to be)
Itโs a wasteful thing.
I will try Page 6 Sentence 3:
ใใใใใใชใใงใใใใฏใใใใซใใใผใใใใใฃใใใใใใชใใ
Translation
ใใใใใใชใใงใใใใฏใใใใซใใใผใ:
- ใใใใใใชใใง โ does not eat (literally โdoes not eat meals andโฆโ)
- ใใใฏใใใ โ works hard
- ใซใใใผใ โ wife
Put together: A hard working wife who doesnโt eat
ใใฃใใ โ ใใ (to be, polite)๏ผif โif there were
ใใ โ old fashioned form of ใใ, a.k.a. good/nice
ใชใ โ expression of hope
Everything put together:
daydreaming Wouldnโt it be nice to have a hard working wife who doesnโt eat?
ใใใใใ, you surely got some strange priorities!
Page 6 Sentence 3
ใใใ ใใใชใใง ใใ ใฏใใใ ใซใใใผใใใใใฃใใ ใใใใชใใ
Summary
ใใใ ใใใชใใง ใใ ใฏใใใ
donโt eat meal and well working wife
ใใฃใใ ใใ if / when be
ใใ good
ใใชใ would be nice if / i Wish there were
I donโt understand how to put together the second half of the sentence.
Yeah, I would say that reading prose and reading manga are pretty much separate skills, so Iโm not surprised that this is more difficult! I think all the things you mentioned are a factor.
Also, re: old timey vocab- this story seems to be heavier on those turns of phrase so far. The second story didnโt really have as much of that kind of stuff.
Yes! ![]()
Welcome!!
Sounds like it. Iโve numbered the vocabulary sheet based on what I have in the digital edition, but I donโt have the physical edition to compare.
page 6
Close, but in this case ใใไธไบบใถใ would be more like โone more personโs portionโ If he gets a wife, one more personโs portion would be too much.
You got it!
Naghus broke it down above, but you already had it! Just put what you wrote together, but backwards.
Wouldnโt it be nice if there was/if I had a hardworking wife who doesnโt eat?
I meant only this part of the sentence. How does this translate to โwouldnโt it be nice if there was โฆ / if I had โฆโ?
page 6
ใใฃใใ ใใใใชใ
ใใ - fancy form of ใใ, to be, to exist, to have (of a wife/kids etc)
ใใ - conditional
ใใ (JLPT N4) | Bunpro
ใใฃใใ - if there was
ใใ - good (another form of ใใ )
ใใช - Particle indicating desire
I was confused because jsho translated ใใ with โgoodโ and ใใชใ with โit would be niceโ. And โgoodโ and โniceโ have a similar meaning. This Sounds weird. Like a โdoppelte Verneinungโ.
Yeah, it can be confusing when that kind of thing happens. The difference here is that ใใ is a word, meaning good. ใใช is a particle, not a word, so it has to do more with the โfeelingโ of the sentence instead of literally translating to a word in the sentence. So think of it as
ใใฃใใใใ - literally โit would be goodโ
ใใชใโฆ. - adds a feeling of wishing for something
Page 6 Sentence 4
ใใใช ใใฃใใใช ใซใใใผใใใใใ ใฏใใฏ ใใใพใใใ
Summary
That Kind of nice/splendid wife should Not exist.
โใใ ใฏใใฏ ใใใพใใโ
How is it possible to have ใใ and ใใ in the Same Sentence? Does this ใใ really mean โto beโ? Why a ใฏ before the ใใใพใใ and Not a ใ?
I donโt understand the structure of this part of the sentence.
Finding the right Translation without the Kanji is really difficult.
This is a good use of the vocab sheet! I made sure that the definitions in the vocab sheet match the context in the story.
page 6
Bunpro on ใฏใใใชใ:
ใฏใใใชใ (JLPT N4) | Bunpro
This sentence is probably closer to 'Itโs unlikely that this kind of splendid wife exists" Literally: There is no expectation that this kind of splendid wife exists.
Yep!
There are two parts to in the sentence. The main part that refers back to the subject is the ใฏใใฏใใใพใใ part. The subject is missing, but itโs implied to be Gosaku, the speaker.
[ ใใใใฏ ] โฆ ใฏใใฏใใใพใใใ
( I ) donโt expect thatโฆ
What doesnโt he expect?
ใใใชใใฃใใใชใซใใใผใใใใ โฆ ใฏใใฏใใใพใใใ
He doesnโt expect that this kind of splendid wife exists.
I looked this up and found an answer on Hinative that said that ใ represents a stronger conviction while ใฏ is a bit weaker. So basically, it just has a different feeling from ใใ
So ใฏใใใชใ or ใฏใใฏใใใพใใ is a phrase that Something is improbable and the โto existโ comes from the ใใ and Not from the ใใ.
Is the ใใ a Part of the sentence before the Komma or after the Komma?