レンタルおにいちゃん - Week 6 Discussion (Absolute Beginners Book Club)

レンタルおにいちゃん Week Six: Pages 59-72

Start Date: 12th September

Last Week: Week 5
Next Week: Week 7
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Vocabulary List

Created by @ChristopherFritz. Please read the editing guidelines in the first sheet before adding any words!

*Created by @nfive. Contains list of grammar points for the week with links to Bunpro explanations.


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This week we finish chapter 2! Hope everyone is still enjoying reading.

The home thread is up for the next Absolute Beginner Book Club Book 10分で読める伝記(2年生) - which starts on 7th November 2020. This is a book rather than a manga and contains 12 short stories of famous people from around the world, aimed at grade 2 Japanese students.

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Page 59

-とろうとしてきました Could someone please help me break this down? With these long strings of hiragana, it’s hard to look up words individually…

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A good resource for this kind of breakdown (although it’s not always perfect) is ichi.moe.

とろう+と+して+きました

(The combination of と+する has a meaning of its own that’s good to learn.)

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Really not a fan of this Sae kid. :triumph:

Does anyone know what these dots next to kana and kanji mean? I’ve seen this in a few manga now, but I’ve no idea what it’s supposed to do.

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My best guess is that it’s to provide emphasis. We saw this in chapter 1 with お()ちゃん vs お()()ちゃん, but it’s more clear why those were emphasized.

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Page 61

口ではなんとでも言えるじゃない

Is this a common expression? Have trouble grasping the literal meaning, especially what the 口では and じゃない parts are doing.

Isn’t she just a little monster?

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I don’t know if that’s the case, but there’s an English expression that is similar: “Talk is cheap.” In other words, you can say anything, whether it’s true or not. Sort of like how Kanami claims she doesn’t know anything about the stolen item.

The particle で can attach to a noun that states “with what” the action of the verb is done. Maybe we can consider this like “from the mouth” or “with the mouth” in English. And は makes this the topic, so the remainder of the sentence will be a comment on this topic.

I don’t recall if I’ve talked about the Japanese topic-comment structure in this book club’s threads. Essentially, what comes before は is the topic (the context of the conversation), and what comes after は is a comment being made about the topic.

The comment being made about “from the mouth” is:

  • なんとでも: We can consider this an expression meaning “whatever”
  • 言える: “to be able to say”, the potential of 言う “to say”.
  • じゃない: “isn’t it?”

[topic]: “with your mouth”

[comment]: “isn’t it that you can say anything?”

English: “Can’t you say anything with your mouth?” meaning you can say anything, but that doesn’t make it true.

I can’t imagine where she gets it from.

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p. 61
What is this?
image
also on p. 60:
image

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This ざわ also appears on page 43 as ザワ.

http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/browse/zawa/

(2) crowd noise, chatter, buzz

It looks like it’s from the verb ざわつく:

[vi,v5k] to be noisy (e.g. from people talking)

Further reading:

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I couldn’t even read the hiragana and thought the second one would be a ゅ.

Yeah, わ and ゆ can look like one another in some fonts. The giveaways for me were that it appeared earlier as ザワ (easy to miss), and I’ve seen ざわ in other manga.

Thanks! So I’ve got:

とろう = either “wasted effort” or possibly some version of “取る” ?
として = とする = to try to
てきました = has begun and continues (polite) https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/128
としてきました = has been trying

So either “She has been trying (to steal it) unsuccessfully” or “She has been trying to take it”? The second sounds better, but that’s not really how 取る is spelled, so…? :thinking:

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ichi.moe helped me out a lot with this one: 何もしてやれなくて. I now understand that the verb is してやる, to do for someone. But I’m still a bit confused about the -て conjugation. He trails off at the end, so maybe it’s indicating that there could be another verb after that, if he chose to continue talking?

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て can also be used to join clauses, and with the なくて, it usually is meant for adding reason or cause, usually feelings or something out of control of the speaker. He trails off at before giving the reason, which is quite common when the reason is difficult and hard to explain, as it is in this case. In English you may or may not include the conjunctive part as well.

Example English of same “trailing off” conversation:
“I’m really sorry. I just couldn’t do anything (because/but)…”

added bunpro link for なくて to grammar sheet.

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It would be
とろう -> 取ろう (volitional “to steal”)
then
取ろうとする (to try/attempt to steal)
then change the する to conjunctive て and add past tense of くる
取ろうしてきました (to attempt to steal, came -> “came over and tried to steal”)

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I changed the vocab sheet for two words on page 62. The sentence is:

何も出なければ納得しますから

I break this down as:

何も - nothing

出なければ - while でなければ is in Jisho as “without; but if; otherwise; or else​”, I think this is the negative provisional form of 出る meaning - “if not coming out”

納得 - while this can mean “consent” (and is the primary meaning on Wanikani) I think here “understanding/comprehension” is the meaning.

します - turns previous word into a する verb

から - because

The sentence translating as: If nothing comes out we will then understand.

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Hello guys! I bring questions! :smiley:

Page 61, the teacher speaks:

小森さん立花さんもこう言ってるので
It is that Komori - & Kanami too - are both speaking…? What does the “kou” mean in this sentence?

この話はまたあらためて
“I have nothing to add to this story yet”… but very unsure about my translation.

Page 69, our oniichan speaks:

あの紗絵って子にはめられたんだと思う。
“It is that (The keyholder) was inserted (into your bag) by this child called Sae, I think”

Am I about right about this one?

あの状況だとどうしようもなかった…
“I didn’t know what to do in your situation (just now) either” is what I made sense from it, but…

I think it’s really strangely worded with the だ (it is) and と (if/when), literally I translate: “If it is that situation, what to do (too) wasn’t (happening)”… Like that sounds really strange to me. I’m confused. Am I in the dark here or is that a usual way to phrase such things in japanese? :smiley:

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I think the teacher is addressing 小森さん and speaking about 立花さん. The こう is like a “such” or “thus” here “She has said such” lit: “She is saying in this way”.

The teacher was cut off here but I think the sentence was going to be finished something like

This story doesn’t need to be examined again.

But then of course Sae’s mother demanded…

I like definition 5 of this word here.

I think you were set up by that Sae child.

Seems fine as a “when” to me. If anything it’s the past tense at the end that’s a little confusing. I believe と conditional is one of the forms where the tense of the second part determines the first, and that might make a little more sense.

When it was that situation, it was hopeless.

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I translated this part as “This story will have to be examined at a later time”.

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