Spy x Family | Week 1 Discussion

Archaism? After all, if it isn’t mentioned, I wouldn’t search.

たそかれ-どき 【黄昏時・誰そ彼時】

名詞

夕暮れ方。夕方。夕方、薄暗くなって向こうにいる人が識別しにくくなった時分。「たそかれ」とも。[反対語] 彼(か)は誰(たれ)時(どき)。

参考

「たそかれ」は「誰(た)そ彼(かれ)」で、「誰(だれ)だ、あれは」といぶかる意。似た形の語「彼(か)は誰(たれ)時(どき)」は、夜明け方の薄明るい時分にいう。今日は「たそがれ(どき)」だけが残って使われている。近世以後「たそがれどき」。

I am not sure of the reference…

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三ツ星カラーズ

Previously read in the ABBC and currently running as an offshoot club.

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I don’t know what my past self was doing. I usually take the printed pages, since they should be the same across all distribution channels. I just miscounted the last page we are reading this week it page 32.

This is not correct. West germany used the Deutsche Mark (German mark) and the smaller coins being called Pfennig (penny), in the east they used the Ostmark (East mark) and even thought I haven’t used that personally wikipedia says that the smaller coins are also called Pfennig.

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I thought the crossword was great. :smile: What kind of newspaper prints crosswords with such answers? :joy:

It did get me wondering: do they have crosswords in Japan? I assume they fill them out in hiragana then?

Ah, thank you for that! I hadn’t made the connection with marks and cents (I was thinking in the direction of pence, but cents make more sense, yes).

Edit:

Ah, our posts crossed, but I guess Pfennig also works :smile:

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I believe they do. Here’s one from the game persona 5. It seems as if you usually fill them out using katakana.

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I bought a whole book of them a few trips to Japan back which I was working on with the forums, but got a bit distracted from. Should probably get back to it someday…

There were also books of kanji-only crosswords on the same shelves, but I didn’t buy one. Also, there’s Japanese crossword mobile apps you can download for free.

They’re a bit tricky, as a learner, because even once you’ve understood the clue, you still need to work out the answer they’re expecting.

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Interesting, can’t find the source that told me yesterday anymore. In that case it’s either like a US cent, which I’m not sure if that would be the case, though, sough I’m going back to my mark and pengo theory

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Minor question:

Pg 16

むくろ seems to be being used metaphorically, right? Referring to something like the “corpse” of the agent’s public identity?

Also I’m fairly certain that the よき on pg 16 is not 予期 as the vocab sheet suggests but is just よい with the same い->き swap as discussed before. But thought I would discuss with the group before changing it…

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Summary

My interpretation is that it’s saying peoples daily lives stand on the sacrifices of the agents (whether that be their identities, their hard work, or their actual lives)

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よき

Assuming you are talking about the line

すべてはよりよき世界のために…!!

I agree with you that it’s not 予期, but if by mentioning that き that was already discussed, that was specifically related to なき, which is a suffix on the whole that means “-less” and would have no bearing on this sentence. Did I miss some discussion about a い → き swap somewhere?

Personally, I think this よき is probably 良き, and I’d translate the sentence as:

“All of (this) is for the sake of a more (より) good (よき) world.”

Or… in proper English, “All of (this) is for the sake of a better world.”

(Which, I mean, is what you are suggesting as well, essentially, I’m just wondering if I missed a piece of the discussion somewhere! :grin:)

Could be I’m mistaken, though.

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Oh sorry I just skimmed over the なき stuff late last night, looks like I may have dreamed up talking about ない → なき, never actually happened :sweat_smile:. Regardless, い → き is a pattern I see sometimes to make い adjectives sound more “poetic”…

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For what it’s worth (via ichi.moe):

image

Edit: Looks like next week we’ll be seeing 「より良い」.

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The back of my manga under the removable cover it has a bunch of information about him in English, and it says codename:twilight.

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Yeah, it says in the last page of Bookwalker ebook version, confirming English version and spelling of everything.

Agent Name:Twilight
Known Alias:Loid,Robert

But spaces after punctuations don’t exist to my liking…

I haven’t watch anime far enough, to confirm they also exist there, though.

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Ok so I’ve got a quick question. A couple of times they seem to use ぬ instead of る, for example on the very first page they say 見せぬ and on page (4?) (The second page after the TOC, they say 突きとめねば, which to me looks like a ば form of 突きとめる with る replaced with ぬ. I tried to do some searching and I think I found that this is a phenomenon found in old Japanese, but I am wondering if I’m on the right track with that. Is it a one for one replacement with ぬ that is trying to give it an old timey feel, or do I have that wrong?

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ぬ is an old form of ない which is still being used under certain conditions (grammatically speaking) or in order to make something feel old-fashioned. If you just assume that it’s ない then you’re all set.

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Does that also work in the case of 突き止めねば, so instead of “if we determine” it means "if we don’t determine?

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~ならない must do.

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Oh, so that’s where the “Loid” spelling comes from.

Heh, and also “Pantsu: black”. The three most recognisable features - hair, eyes and pantsu.

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I interpreted it just a tad differently, but i think the meaning is the same, I was thinking it was “if we don’t determine it…” (bad consequences left unsaid). But maybe the thing left unsaid in japanese is the ならない and the correct interpretation is “we must determine it…”

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