[Request] Enhancing the Forums

Mempo said...
admiralawesome said...

Most likely, it's better to change yourself to better suit your environment, instead of waiting for your environment to change for you.
 Well, it's more like removing the temptation. Sure, anyone using my userscript to block the forums, could just turn it off, but that's just bad fate. Instead it's an opportunity to direct your attention to something productive first instead of dealing with distractions from the get-go.
+1 to both of these statements.  Adaption is a great skill to have, but having a little help to stay focused is great too  :)

Also @Mempo, thanks for making that add-on, I think it'll be useful ;)
xspikex52 said...
Mempo said...
admiralawesome said...

Most likely, it's better to change yourself to better suit your environment, instead of waiting for your environment to change for you.
 Well, it's more like removing the temptation. Sure, anyone using my userscript to block the forums, could just turn it off, but that's just bad fate. Instead it's an opportunity to direct your attention to something productive first instead of dealing with distractions from the get-go.
+1 to both of these statements.  Adaption is a great skill to have, but having a little help to stay focused is great too  :)

Also @Mempo, thanks for making that add-on, I think it'll be useful ;)
 No problemo! I just wish it would work for everybody!
admiralawesome said... I think duck went a little too far on being a "society's self control" spiel.  I'm just looking at it in a practical sense. If you are so easily distracted, then blocking a forum is not a solution, as you'll just unblock it when you want to see it.

 I can only speak for myself on this one, but I would bet I'm not alone - I won't just unblock it when I want to see it, because I'm generally not very conscious of even getting distracted in the first place. If something pops up and says UH, NO? it reminds me that I'm not doing what I was supposed to be doing and gives me a chance to correct. For eg, I have a lot of apps on my phone set to not be able to use data, and then I turn wifi off when I'm supposed to be working. If I'm out and about and actually need to use a thing on data, it won't stop me - I'll re-enable it. But if I was legitimately getting my phone out to log something, it stops me from going "oh hey, 5 FB alerts" and reading them, because a message will pop up all "hey you have to turn on data you silly person", and then I go back to work instead of rabbitholing.

So - for a lot of people it would be a solution, I think.

As long as we’re adding requests, we need it so that if we get quoted, or a replied to, we get an alert so we know about it.

Mempo said...
ducksFANjason said...
admiralawesome said... I personally think if you require a feature to keep yourself from wasting time, and become responsible, then you have more important things to worry about, and bigger problems.
 This is exactly what I was about to post. No offense to the OP or anything here I don't mean to call you out specifically just anyone in general with this issue. I mean, what ever happened to our society's self-control? Think about it for a minute: do you really need the feature that blocks the forum so you can do work instead? If you can't just put your head down and get to work when it's necessary, then life is going to be very difficult for you. If that's really the case, then fixing that issue first needs to be your top priority as I would argue that is more important than learning any language.
 What happened? Facebook happened. Email happened. Internet in general happened.

These days, there are a million possible distractions all around you. Especially for people working with a computer all day (like me). It's quite easy to say "oh wait, let me check X real quick" and down the rabbit hole you go. Maybe you two are very good at self-control but society in general isn't. We're only human after all! The world around us has conditioned us towards instant gratification, and productivity is paying the price for it. Why do you think there are a gazillion productivity apps, or TODO apps out there? Because people need them. Plain and simple. Procrastination is an issue nowadays. Not for everyone, but for a whole lot of people, for sure.

One of the reasons this affects some more than others is just age, job situation etc. If you're middle-aged, have a family and have a full time job, i don't expect procrastination to be an issue really, simply because you got a lot to do (real obligations) and so little time. So you just do it. You go to your job, and when you get home you do stuff with your family. You also remember a time before computers/internet, so you might not use a lot of its possible functions.
Now imagine a student in his college dorm. Heck, let's take me as an example. I grew up with the internet and if i wanted to, i could go a whole day without barely leaving my desk, because everything is digital nowadays. I learn new things, read, watch TV, and chat with friends, all on my computer. Besides classes, i don't really have any obligations. So there is a whole lot of things i could potentially do, but being human, i often follow the path of least resistance. That's indeed sad if you don't experience this issue, but it's the ugly truth and more common then you would imagine. Instead rejoice we want to do something about it.
(the above paragraph is an example, not an assumption about any person here)
 I really don't think age has anything to do with it. I'm 29 years old - I remember a time before computers were commonplace (when I was a child) and I remember a time when my dad would come home and tell me stories about how he "surfed the internet at work today." Having said that, I was still in college less than six years ago and continued going to school after receiving my bachelor's degree as little as a year ago. I don't think that age or generational gaps have anything to do with self-control.

Believe me, I'm just as susceptible to distractions as you - I LOVE to play games on my phone or 3DS or one of the many handhelds for general emulation I've purchased throughout the years. The difference then is not that I'm able to focus because today's technology is so much more commonplace (because it was commonplace when I was in high school and college as well) - it's that I use my self-control to not allow that technology to interfere with real obligations when necessary. That comes down to self-restraint and (as you suggested) maybe it's that I have more than you. I don't know. But I really feel like creating an add-on that allows you to disable the forums, which you can then re-enable whenever you want, is just not a proper solution. If you can re-enable it at any time, the temptation will still be there when it's disabled. If you're able to say "Well, I'll just use self-control to NOT enable it until I'm done with my reviews" then why can't you apply that same self-control without the add-on to not scroll down to the forums before you finish your reviews as well?

Don't get me wrong, this isn't meant to be some lecture about how "this script is pointless so don't make it!" or anything. If the script helps then use it I guess - I just can't logically work out how this add-on is necessary for anyone. If the add-on permanently switched the forums off until it could tell that you'd finished your quota for reviews, then it would make perfect logical sense. But since it's still up to the user to enable/disable the thing, it's nothing more than a placebo. And it doesn't even have the benefit of the actual placebo effect either.
kaiken said...
admiralawesome said... I think duck went a little too far on being a "society's self control" spiel.  I'm just looking at it in a practical sense. If you are so easily distracted, then blocking a forum is not a solution, as you'll just unblock it when you want to see it.

 I can only speak for myself on this one, but I would bet I'm not alone - I won't just unblock it when I want to see it, because I'm generally not very conscious of even getting distracted in the first place. If something pops up and says UH, NO? it reminds me that I'm not doing what I was supposed to be doing and gives me a chance to correct. For eg, I have a lot of apps on my phone set to not be able to use data, and then I turn wifi off when I'm supposed to be working. If I'm out and about and actually need to use a thing on data, it won't stop me - I'll re-enable it. But if I was legitimately getting my phone out to log something, it stops me from going "oh hey, 5 FB alerts" and reading them, because a message will pop up all "hey you have to turn on data you silly person", and then I go back to work instead of rabbitholing.

So - for a lot of people it would be a solution, I think.
 Your example is about an alert popping up and distracting you - the forums are different. The forums don't say "Hey, look at this post!" in an alert. It's your decision to look at the forums and topics. And furthermore, if alerts are too distracting for you to ignore - then some of the features for this add-on would be the last thing you'd need. There are some requests here for responses in the forums to send email alerts etc. That would be FAR worse than it is now for people who share your inability to ignore alerts.
shiboleth said... As long as we're adding requests, we need it so that if we get quoted, or a replied to, we get an alert so we know about it.
 1. your profile pic is hilarious
2. although i've never used it myself, i think the forum enhancer (/t/Wanikani-forum-enhancer-remember-where-you-left-off-subscribe-to-topics/2686/1) does that. But i'll look into that script later. Either not many people know about it, or it is lacking in functionality because these forum requests keep popping up.

ducksFANjason said...But I really feel like creating an add-on that allows you to disable the forums, which you can then re-enable whenever you want, is just not a proper solution. If you can re-enable it at any time, the temptation will still be there when it's disabled. If you're able to say "Well, I'll just use self-control to NOT enable it until I'm done with my reviews" then why can't you apply that same self-control without the add-on to not scroll down to the forums before you finish your reviews as well?
 About Mempo's script, I imagine that it throws a wrench in the habit, which kicks you out of unconscious behavior and gives you an opportunity to reevaluate what you're doing. It's not like you're always switching the script on and off either, because it will show the forums if you don't have any reviews or if you already did half of them in the last half hour, so toggling the enable/disable script isn't at risk for becoming a habit.

 ![httpsc1staticflickrcom540394161972896_3237bd9851jpg](upload://6VUkHSg9AFvNj9iPxGOzA3VIyUR.jpg)

*Note: this is speculation, I haven't actually used the script.
ducksFANjason said...
Mempo said...
ducksFANjason said...
admiralawesome said... I personally think if you require a feature to keep yourself from wasting time, and become responsible, then you have more important things to worry about, and bigger problems.
 This is exactly what I was about to post. No offense to the OP or anything here I don't mean to call you out specifically just anyone in general with this issue. I mean, what ever happened to our society's self-control? Think about it for a minute: do you really need the feature that blocks the forum so you can do work instead? If you can't just put your head down and get to work when it's necessary, then life is going to be very difficult for you. If that's really the case, then fixing that issue first needs to be your top priority as I would argue that is more important than learning any language.
 What happened? Facebook happened. Email happened. Internet in general happened.

These days, there are a million possible distractions all around you. Especially for people working with a computer all day (like me). It's quite easy to say "oh wait, let me check X real quick" and down the rabbit hole you go. Maybe you two are very good at self-control but society in general isn't. We're only human after all! The world around us has conditioned us towards instant gratification, and productivity is paying the price for it. Why do you think there are a gazillion productivity apps, or TODO apps out there? Because people need them. Plain and simple. Procrastination is an issue nowadays. Not for everyone, but for a whole lot of people, for sure.

One of the reasons this affects some more than others is just age, job situation etc. If you're middle-aged, have a family and have a full time job, i don't expect procrastination to be an issue really, simply because you got a lot to do (real obligations) and so little time. So you just do it. You go to your job, and when you get home you do stuff with your family. You also remember a time before computers/internet, so you might not use a lot of its possible functions.
Now imagine a student in his college dorm. Heck, let's take me as an example. I grew up with the internet and if i wanted to, i could go a whole day without barely leaving my desk, because everything is digital nowadays. I learn new things, read, watch TV, and chat with friends, all on my computer. Besides classes, i don't really have any obligations. So there is a whole lot of things i could potentially do, but being human, i often follow the path of least resistance. That's indeed sad if you don't experience this issue, but it's the ugly truth and more common then you would imagine. Instead rejoice we want to do something about it.
(the above paragraph is an example, not an assumption about any person here)
 I really don't think age has anything to do with it. I'm 29 years old - I remember a time before computers were commonplace (when I was a child) and I remember a time when my dad would come home and tell me stories about how he "surfed the internet at work today." Having said that, I was still in college less than six years ago and continued going to school after receiving my bachelor's degree as little as a year ago. I don't think that age or generational gaps have anything to do with self-control.

Believe me, I'm just as susceptible to distractions as you - I LOVE to play games on my phone or 3DS or one of the many handhelds for general emulation I've purchased throughout the years. The difference then is not that I'm able to focus because today's technology is so much more commonplace (because it was commonplace when I was in high school and college as well) - it's that I use my self-control to not allow that technology to interfere with real obligations when necessary. That comes down to self-restraint and (as you suggested) maybe it's that I have more than you. I don't know. But I really feel like creating an add-on that allows you to disable the forums, which you can then re-enable whenever you want, is just not a proper solution. If you can re-enable it at any time, the temptation will still be there when it's disabled. If you're able to say "Well, I'll just use self-control to NOT enable it until I'm done with my reviews" then why can't you apply that same self-control without the add-on to not scroll down to the forums before you finish your reviews as well?

Don't get me wrong, this isn't meant to be some lecture about how "this script is pointless so don't make it!" or anything. If the script helps then use it I guess - I just can't logically work out how this add-on is necessary for anyone. If the add-on permanently switched the forums off until it could tell that you'd finished your quota for reviews, then it would make perfect logical sense. But since it's still up to the user to enable/disable the thing, it's nothing more than a placebo. And it doesn't even have the benefit of the actual placebo effect either.
 All right, all right. I only brought up age because I come from a family where most people above 30 don't even know how to turn on a computer. Therefore it would be impossible for them to have virtual distractions.

I created the script mainly for myself and to learn javascript so that i could create even more userscript that generally may be considered as "more useful". Helping others with it is just an added bonus.

And it does permanently turn off the forums until you did your reviews (as far as i can control). It hides the forum section from the dashboard and redirects the user to the reviews page from any page of the forum. Disabling the userscript is a solution, but that's not an issue of distraction any more. If you go to those lengths, it's because you just don't want to do reviews. The script merely makes it easier because it removes the choice "do i read the forums first or do reviews?".

Note how everybody is arguing about an issue that's last on OP's list.
admiralawesome said...Most likely, it's better to change yourself to better suit your environment, instead of waiting for your environment to change for you.
 Uh...that's basically saying to everyone who has problems being distracted to just get over it. Changing your environment instead of going on whatever self-control-soul-searching you're suggesting is a lot more efficient and effective. Besides, just because someone can open a menu to unblock something doesn't make it useless. That one extra step gives you another chance to take step back, realize you don't want to waste your time there, and actually increase your self discipline. 
Mempo said...
ducksFANjason said...
Mempo said...
ducksFANjason said...
admiralawesome said... I personally think if you require a feature to keep yourself from wasting time, and become responsible, then you have more important things to worry about, and bigger problems.
 This is exactly what I was about to post. No offense to the OP or anything here I don't mean to call you out specifically just anyone in general with this issue. I mean, what ever happened to our society's self-control? Think about it for a minute: do you really need the feature that blocks the forum so you can do work instead? If you can't just put your head down and get to work when it's necessary, then life is going to be very difficult for you. If that's really the case, then fixing that issue first needs to be your top priority as I would argue that is more important than learning any language.
 What happened? Facebook happened. Email happened. Internet in general happened.

These days, there are a million possible distractions all around you. Especially for people working with a computer all day (like me). It's quite easy to say "oh wait, let me check X real quick" and down the rabbit hole you go. Maybe you two are very good at self-control but society in general isn't. We're only human after all! The world around us has conditioned us towards instant gratification, and productivity is paying the price for it. Why do you think there are a gazillion productivity apps, or TODO apps out there? Because people need them. Plain and simple. Procrastination is an issue nowadays. Not for everyone, but for a whole lot of people, for sure.

One of the reasons this affects some more than others is just age, job situation etc. If you're middle-aged, have a family and have a full time job, i don't expect procrastination to be an issue really, simply because you got a lot to do (real obligations) and so little time. So you just do it. You go to your job, and when you get home you do stuff with your family. You also remember a time before computers/internet, so you might not use a lot of its possible functions.
Now imagine a student in his college dorm. Heck, let's take me as an example. I grew up with the internet and if i wanted to, i could go a whole day without barely leaving my desk, because everything is digital nowadays. I learn new things, read, watch TV, and chat with friends, all on my computer. Besides classes, i don't really have any obligations. So there is a whole lot of things i could potentially do, but being human, i often follow the path of least resistance. That's indeed sad if you don't experience this issue, but it's the ugly truth and more common then you would imagine. Instead rejoice we want to do something about it.
(the above paragraph is an example, not an assumption about any person here)
 I really don't think age has anything to do with it. I'm 29 years old - I remember a time before computers were commonplace (when I was a child) and I remember a time when my dad would come home and tell me stories about how he "surfed the internet at work today." Having said that, I was still in college less than six years ago and continued going to school after receiving my bachelor's degree as little as a year ago. I don't think that age or generational gaps have anything to do with self-control.

Believe me, I'm just as susceptible to distractions as you - I LOVE to play games on my phone or 3DS or one of the many handhelds for general emulation I've purchased throughout the years. The difference then is not that I'm able to focus because today's technology is so much more commonplace (because it was commonplace when I was in high school and college as well) - it's that I use my self-control to not allow that technology to interfere with real obligations when necessary. That comes down to self-restraint and (as you suggested) maybe it's that I have more than you. I don't know. But I really feel like creating an add-on that allows you to disable the forums, which you can then re-enable whenever you want, is just not a proper solution. If you can re-enable it at any time, the temptation will still be there when it's disabled. If you're able to say "Well, I'll just use self-control to NOT enable it until I'm done with my reviews" then why can't you apply that same self-control without the add-on to not scroll down to the forums before you finish your reviews as well?

Don't get me wrong, this isn't meant to be some lecture about how "this script is pointless so don't make it!" or anything. If the script helps then use it I guess - I just can't logically work out how this add-on is necessary for anyone. If the add-on permanently switched the forums off until it could tell that you'd finished your quota for reviews, then it would make perfect logical sense. But since it's still up to the user to enable/disable the thing, it's nothing more than a placebo. And it doesn't even have the benefit of the actual placebo effect either.
 All right, all right. I only brought up age because I come from a family where most people above 30 don't even know how to turn on a computer. Therefore it would be impossible for them to have virtual distractions.

I created the script mainly for myself and to learn javascript so that i could create even more userscript that generally may be considered as "more useful". Helping others with it is just an added bonus.

And it does permanently turn off the forums until you did your reviews (as far as i can control). It hides the forum section from the dashboard and redirects the user to the reviews page from any page of the forum. Disabling the userscript is a solution, but that's not an issue of distraction any more. If you go to those lengths, it's because you just don't want to do reviews. The script merely makes it easier because it removes the choice "do i read the forums first or do reviews?".

Note how everybody is arguing about an issue that's last on OP's list.
 Fair enough. I did not realize that the script handled the hiding/showing of the forum on it's own at all times. I assumed one had to enable the script to hide the forums permanently, do work/be efficient, then disable the script to see the forums again. That, to me, is asinine in the sense that it does not do anything to assuage temptation. But given that you've set the script to be enabled permanently, I see how this could be helpful to those who struggle to stay on task.

I do however, still stand my by original indictment of our society's lack of self-control - but then I suppose that's a can of worms not worth opening further in this topic.

Kudos on the script BTW - I hope people enjoy it! I'm all for creating scripts/programs to better learn/reinforce knowledge in a given language.
Reckard said...
admiralawesome said...Most likely, it's better to change yourself to better suit your environment, instead of waiting for your environment to change for you.
 Uh...that's basically saying to everyone who has problems being distracted to just get over it. Changing your environment instead of going on whatever self-control-soul-searching you're suggesting is a lot more efficient and effective. Besides, just because someone can open a menu to unblock something doesn't make it useless. That one extra step gives you another chance to take step back, realize you don't want to waste your time there, and actually increase your self discipline. 
 I know, right? The extra step reminds you why you blocked it in the first place, so you stop. If people could just get over being distracted, someone wouldn't program it in the first place. :P


@ducksFANjason, you said "Your example is about an alert popping up and distracting you - the forums are different. The forums don't say "Hey, look at this post!" in an alert. It's your decision to look at the forums and topics." This makes me think you didn't actually read what I said, so here's a relevant bit requoted: "I'm generally not very conscious of even getting distracted in the first place. If something pops up and says UH, NO? it reminds me that I'm not doing what I was supposed to be doing and gives me a chance to correct." I'm not necessarily making a conscious decision to look at forums or FB or whatever - I just space out and end up there. (This time was conscious! I am currently aware that I am on the forums!  And once I am done this post I am going to get back to work. Go me.) Email alerts would actually be great: I could follow them directly to a relevant post, then close the window. It's wander-time that gets really dangerous. I actually have pretty good discipline and self-control - when it's turned on.

meh, emails. For occasional posters maybe, but for me it would mean at least 3 emails per day. Image the size of your inbox after some back-and-forth replying. I’m no expert, but i recently learned it’s not that easy to send an email (program-wise) so i doubt you could do that with a userscript.

A more useful feature would be to have a panel on the dashboard with all the topics you recently posted in. That way you don’t have to comb through the entire forum looking if someone somewhere replied to something you said. And you wouldn’t have to go to your user panel (a feature not even everybody knows about).

kelth said... I was just reading the erotic tales series' little mermaid and thought you said a forum can absorb a lot of life energy on the first read through.
 I see what you did there... erotic tales series... little mermaid...  That's a good one!  ☚(゚ヮ゚☚)

So the least priority item is the most talked about. Also, what did Rumi say? “Either be the way you look like, or look like the way you are!” Nonetheless, one would want to enjoy fun in the forums, participate in GIF wars etc. but at some point, one might want to shut off the forum. This has nothing to do with self control, I mean, you yourself are de/activating the forums. If you have zero self control, you would just remove the plugin right away anyway. 

There are apps (for Mac at least) where you can define black sheeps of the internet, activate a timer and you won’t be able to reach those websites anymore. Kinda something like that. But if you use the forum to learn, then don’t deactivate it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H4l9RpkwM

You see, this request wasn’t a bad idea after all. And you guys laughed it off. So basically the first item in the list is the most important one… Some people really do write dung, so…

tomboy said...
Meiko90 said... Maybe some way of tracking the threads that you've posted on, too :3

(Unless this already exists and I'm just super unobservant) 
 have you seen this? /t/Wanikani-forum-enhancer-remember-where-you-left-off-subscribe-to-topics/2686/1
 OMG I've spent AGES trying to remember this post name to search for it! Thank you SO much!  (> w <)

We could really use an internal mail server so we can send private messages to people. This feature is a staple on any online forum but is unfortunately absent from this once since its inception.

I don’t really see the need for a script to block certain users or posts because you could just be exercising some discipline and ignoring them altogether.

OSad said...I don't really see the need for a script to block certain users or posts because you could just be exercising some discipline and ignoring them altogether.
 sorry, but the stupidity of some of the people here (I won't say names, but everyone knows anyway) would even test the patience of Dalai Lama himself. He would first face palm, then take out his butterfly knife, give us a good demo of his handling skills and excercise a few stabs.

Willpower FTW.