Mark as wrong


#1

Hi,

While I don’t think people should be able to override when WK says they are wrong (for typos we have the Ignore script and that should suffice), would it be a good idea to want to be able to mark items as wrong as part of the product’s basic functionality? As an example, I typed “luck” as the meaning of 運がいい (because I’m an idiot), and WK said it was right (“answer was a bit off”) which is typically a good feature but I would have liked to mark it as wrong because I feel I need to be stricter.

Thoughts?


[feature suggestion] Demote button on radical/kanji/vocab pages
#2

There’s the Double Check script that lets you mark right answers wrong, and vice versa (useful for unrecognized meanings you haven’t added a synonym for yet):
https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/9732-wk-double-check


#3

What’s the distinction? You can’t really have one without the other. If WK tells me that こ is not a reading for 娘 or that “fat” is unacceptable for a word that means “obese”, WK is just wrong as far as I’m concerned and I’ll override them.


#4

Well, I was thinking from a subscription length perspective. While I don’t think they focus on milking money from people but rather on teaching properly (I heart you guys), it may not be advisable to officially support a feature where people could artificially get things right. Nor would it be great for SRS. As far as I’m concerned even using the ignore script for anything but typos is a terrible idea. Marking things wrong however can only serve to benefit everyone, seems to me. In your example, if you disagree with a meaning during reviews you can add a synonym and the item goes back in the queue where it can be marked correct. But if you get something right and want to mark it wrong, there is no in-built option.


#5

This is not true. Even if the item comes up again for review and tells you it moved up in the SRS, it moves down.

Also, there are no synonyms for readings.

But I see, you meant an official WK feature as opposed to just a userscript. Yes, the userscript is sufficient. It sounded like you were saying that the script should be prevented from fixing anything but typos somehow.

And sure, marking wrong as a built in feature would be less risky from WK’s teaching perspective.


#6

In case anyone was curious about the adding of a synonym during a review session process, I sacrificed an item for the sake of demonstrating.

I chose 巾 which has the default meaning of “towel” and no other synonyms. It was at guru status for me. I had already added “cloth” earlier, but I checked jisho and saw that “width” is also an accepted meaning, so I answered with “width”, was marked wrong, added it as a synonym, it came up for review again, I answered “width” again, was marked right, but it dropped to apprentice. I’m not sure what causes the bug of it sometimes saying you moved up when you do this, but here it accurately displayed the SRS move. I agree that it shouldn’t move you down in this scenario though.

  1. My status for 巾 before starting showing guru status.

  2. I answer with “width”, am marked wrong, add “width” as a synonym.

  3. I answer with “width”, am marked right, move down to apprentice

  4. My status for 巾 after showing apprentice status.


#7

This is very good to know.

This is what I was driving at.

That would be an implementation nightmare :sweat_smile:.

Pretty sure we believed you without you having to do that :laughing:

@viet, is it a bug or a feature that it does? Perhaps meant to stop people from adding ssynonyms just to move an item up?


#8

Well, people often assume that it should work opposite to how it works, and it does sometimes say it worked that way, even if it’s lying. I don’t mind reviewing that item again later.

My perspective is that WK intends to accept the synonym from now on anyway, so if you answer with it in the same session, it should go up. If people want to abuse synonyms they can, by just adding dummy synonyms to words so they don’t have to answer correctly.


#9

Hmm we’ll have to look into this. Will get back to you.


#10

I agree leveling down has too little of a negative effect in the long run anyway.

@viet, thanks!


#11

So here is my understanding from reading the thread.

  1. User answers with “word” which does not belong to meaning or synonyms. It gets marked wrong.
  2. User adds “word” it to synonyms.
  3. Answers again with “word”, SRS goes down.

The question is if the evalauation should be the wrong input (but now have been added to synonyms) should be ignored and the item should go up in SRS?


#12

Yes, that’s an accurate description. Though, as mentioned, sometimes the SRS thing will tell you “Guru” (or whatever the next rung up is) when it actually went down (to Apprentice or whatever). I couldn’t recreate that at this time though.

Of course, it’s not what VegasVed’s thread was supposed to be about, so sorry for hijacking lol


#13

Well… It isn’t a bug nor really a feature. The answer isn’t on the whitelist, therefore you get marked wrong. It’s that simple. Nothing neferarious behind it. If you want to use words outside what we have, that’s fine, but the idea is to evaluate words we present to you at the basis.

Now the question is if we should consider not marking against the user if they add the “wrong” answer as a synonym right after. I’ll pass this along with the other team and see what they say.


#14

Yeah, the only reason it’s a point of confusion is because it does sometimes incorrectly say it’s going up and ignoring the previous wrong answer, so people will see that and assume it always works that way. Sorry for not being able to demonstrate that bug though.


#15

It’s all good. We should be able to replicate it with the information you gave.


#16

You missed a few steps.

  1. Get either meaning or reading wrong.
    IMG_5718
  2. Answer correctly the next time. If you get the red pop-up showing you’ve now answered both meaning and reading and one was incorrect…

IMG_5720

  1. …and then you add a synonym…
    IMG_5721

  2. The item’s reading and meaning come up again to be answered.
    IMG_5722

  3. If you get both parts correct this time around, you see the green pop-up, and instead of going down a level, it stays/goes up.

IMG_5723

In this case, I used it for evil )(since I definitely got the meaning wrong at first). But it’s convenient for misspellings and such. Assuming it’s not all an illusion, that is.


#17

Check the item page. It’ll say “Apprentice” or “Guru” depending on what it actually is.

But even if that does work the way you say, I would like what I demonstrated to work differently, as viet is looking into.


#18

Oh, yep. Looks like it’s an illusion, then. It’s been confusing since it without fail shows the green pop-up when I do this, making it seem to be marked correct.

But it seems that it’s still at Apprentice level nonetheless.

@viet, I have been able to reproduce this effect every time with the steps I showed in my post above, if that helps.


#19

Yeah, you’re not the first to assume it could be used as an exploit.


#20

I know, I just had a hard time making myself face the truth hidden behind that bright green veneer.