I forgot to mention, when they name their role, its not only their own role but the other members of the family aswell. Its like they form the speech for the youngest person in the room. For example if there is a family of mother father and baby, the mother might call dad to her husband if the child is present.
I didn’t know んだ had that meaning too! I guess i was reading it wrong, thanks for that.
No worries at all, I kid. Everyone participating has been very helpful. I already knew going into this that even if I get the gist of what’s being said, I’ll want to understand the nuances as well, even if it slows me down.
Finished up this week’s pages! Hopefully this isn’t overboard on questions, but I appreciate any input on these.
Page 8
What’s the purpose of し here? I interpretted this as something like “I’m already a high school student” and that seems to be the case even if し wasn’t there?
Page 9
Google translates the end portion of this sentence as “Please take it” and that confused me since I’d expect that to be written as もらってください. Is Google’s translation accurate, and if so, is this sort of treatment (just て form without ください) short for “please”?
Maybe this is expanded more later on in the story, but is there a reason why he’s saying he doesn’t want to cause worry? I see the whole exchange with the woman kind of weird but it was pretty typical for someone trying to aggressively sell you something.
Is it accurate to interpret this as “I didn’t know there was a place like this in the shopping district…”? I wasn’t familar with のか at the end of a sentence but I read that this expresses suprise or discovery about something that wasn’t expected?
Similar to my question from Page 8. What does the し do here?
Is this supposed to be a sound effect or something that’s being said? I thought that this would just mean “HOT” but that seems odd in both cases?
Page 8: Already answered here. Let me know if you still have questions after that.
Page 9
Yeah, leaving off the ください is the more casual variant. And the Google translation fits well enough (it’s literally “If you want to, please receive this.”).
The feeling I got from the whole exchange is that she’s probably not family, but friends with his family and that she knows him well since he was little. And for whatever reason she’s pretty worried about him living alone. I definitely didn’t get “aggressively sell you something” vibes from her.
As to why he doesn’t want to cause worry: Maybe he’s going through hard times, and doesn’t want to be a burden on those he considers close, or just doesn’t like sharing his troubles in general.
I’m about to start reading the book and I have a different question about “logistics”. I have a digital version on my iPad, so the screen is big and comfortable for me to read furigana and zoom in as needed.
There are the vocabulary and grammar sheets that it would be nice to have handy, plus jisho, ichi.moe and other tools that might be useful to have around. Reading them on the phone is not so comfy, and I think it would be better to be in front of my PC to have all the sheets and tools handy, but if I’m in front of the PC I don’t have space for the iPad… Or I can have multiple tabs on the browser, but then it would be a continuous back and forth from the book.
If you’re reading digitally, what’s your setup and workflow?
I’m probably a bit ADHD, and I found I can focus better if I have everything I need around me.
This is my first book club, but so far, I’ve been splitting multiple windows on my screen. Book on one side, vocab/grammer tabs on the other. I’ll attempt reading for a bit and make note of anything I want to check on jisho/ichi.moe/etc after a few pages, just so that I’m not constantly having to pause between reading.
I also have the manga on my iPad, while I have all the references open on my pc. I have the iPad right next to my keyboard, with the back propped up on some book so that I have a good viewing angle. This allows me good access to the vocab spreadsheet and online dictionaries while still making the manga easy to read.
Hey, this is the first time I’m reading along a book club.
The vocabulary list and the discussions in this post are really helpful, thank you guys!
Now to my own question. Even though I get the general idea of the sentence down below, I wanted to know a little more about the details of the grammar used.
Page 8
The first part translates to: “You’re living alone, right?”.
With the short form of でしょう like explained here: でしょう-deshou-meaning
The second part is not so clear to me. I would translate it to something like: “You should count on us some more”.
My assumptions are:
The part with “頼ってくれて” [たよってくれて] is the same as mentioned in another comment or here: 〜てくれる-grammar, where the boy is doing the ‘depending on’ for the woman.
This is followed by the Te-form of くれる + いい. I found a few sources where people talk about this, and it is supposedly used to express: ‘asking for permission with a firm desire to perform an action’.
In this context, does it mean that the woman is asking him to depend on her more? Or is it more about: “It’s OK to depend on us more”?
Then the sentence ends with んだ, which is used in a reassuring manner based on the information from here: んだ and its variants.
And lastly, there is よ to give the whole sentence more emphasis.
I would appreciate it if you could tell me if these assumptions go in the right direction, or if there’s something I am completely wrong about.
I hope it comes across what I want to express here. And I hope I’m not too nitpicky about the small details.
I’m looking forward to seeing your replies here and in the next weeks as well!
Not at all! This kind of questions is exactly what the book club is for; ask as many as you want to. (And if the answers aren’t satisfying enough, feel free to ask for more details.)
You’ve already found the article mentioning 〜てあげる, 〜てくれる, and 〜てもらう, right? Using these implies that someone is doing something for the benefit of somebody else.
With てくれる the favor is going in the direction of the speaker. So I think she is saying that relying on them is a favor to her (and/or the 私たち group).
She’s basically implying that it’s not a burden, rather she would welcome it and be happy to be relied on.
Disclaimer: 〜てくれる directions always get a bit unclear for me when it comes to telling people to do something, so please someone correct me if I’m wrong here.
IIII miight be wrong but~ I would like to share the way I understand this, and maybe you could give me some feedback if it’s a better way to understand it.
Again this is what I get from experiencie and exposure to the language, the “because it sounds better” reason.
As far as I have seen, they use くれる because is a action directed to themself, and because she is asking to do so.
In japanese when they ask for something and if they are the person receiving it they usually use this form.
Now, I know it may seem a bit redundant since she already said 私たち at the beginning, you already know they are the ones receiving the action. But sometimes languages have this things .
Even in english, I always wonder why they say stand up, that “up” just seem redundant, you already now in what direction is the person standing if they are sitting
I feel like て(も)いい form has another use. It is a form for giving permission, so you can start seeing that the function is different. It is not asking but giving permission.
Also, it doesn’t clarify a person like くれる does, and -I’m just thinking it now- maybe it is more oftenly used with things? For example 食べてもいい、座ってもいい. I don’t think this last one it is restrictive, but as far as I can recall maybe is more used in this way.
In summary: she is saying it’s okay (ていい)to rely on us(くれる ).
This is how I see it , what does the rest think of it?
Maybe I misunderstand you, but I think the てくれる is entirely the direction of the favor/benefit of the action, not the direction or target of the action itself. Examples:
私たちにもっと頼ってくれていいんだよ - You can rely more on us; it would be a favor to me.
私たちのお金にもっと頼ってくれていいんだよ - You can rely more on our money; it would be a favor to me.
友達にもっと頼ってくれていいんだよ - You can rely more on your friends; it would be a favor to me.
ケーキを食べてくれていいんだよ - You can eat the cake; it would be a favor to me.
Examples made up by me to clarify how I think about てくれる - let me know if anything there is wrong, folks.
So in this example:
てくれる: “As a favor to me/us”
に: Direction of the action
Yeah, the “asking for permission” bit just comes from using てもいい in a question.
Side note: At it’s core it’s just saying “even x is okay” - it’s not just about permission, it could also be used for other things, e.g. in those two examples from Bunpro:
preferences: お茶冷たくてもいい? - Is it okay even if the tea is cold? (Would you prefer I heat it?)
possibilities: 曇りでもいいでしょう。- It is fine (even) if it is cloudy, don’t you think?
Sorry, I don’t quite understand the distinction you made here. It sounds to me that you are saying: It is “A”, not “A”.
But I think I kind of understand how you see it. You take the person/object に like the destinatary of the action, and てくれる translate it directly as “a favor to me”.
I guess you are right, maybe I expressed my self wrong by saying the direction of the action. What I meant is that you are doing it for them. It gets a little bit confusing because when they translate it in videos or anime in the subs doesn’t say “as a favor to me”, I feel like that’s more a grammar thing to understand the form but I wonder when it comes to understand or translate the whole sentence if it is sayed that way.
Even so, thank you for the feedback, it is usefull for me. Also, I was lately reviewing the てもいい form and my textbook didn’t point out that other uses of the form, so that clarifies a lot.