氷菓: Week 2 Discussion

Japanese Language Reading
#1

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氷菓 Home Thread

Week 2

image
Start Date: Jan 18th
Last week: Week 1
Next week: Week 3

Reading:

End Page End % End Phrase Page Count
27 12% 俺は簡単に事情を説明した。 14

Discussion Rules

  • Please use spoiler tags for major events in the current chapter(s) and any content in future chapters.
  • When asking for help, please mention the chapter and page number. Also mention what version of the book you are reading.
  • Don’t be afraid of asking questions, even if they seem embarrassing at first. All of us are here to learn.
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氷菓 Home Thread
氷菓: Week 3 Discussion
#2

I read this today at a 多読クラブ, and when the time was up I stopped reading at what seemed like a natural pause. When I got home and looked at this thread, I realized that I stopped reading exactly where the break is for this week–apparently the meeting time was the perfect length to read this installment. I found this week easier to understand last week; last week there wasn’t anything super tricky language-wise, it was just that starting a new thing in Japanese haziness that I still feel quite strongly each time. (… I still felt it this week, but less.) I also need to look at the name list again because I have already forgotten.

Since I have a week before reading on, I should really go back and reread, given how vague a lot of this feels in my brain. Maybe I can find the discipline before next week!

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#3

Giving a try to my first ever Book Club.

I’ve read it so far, but I feel like I will have a lot of trouble trying to stop myself from reading ahead of the schedule and finishing the book in a week…

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#4

That’s a standard problem with WK book clubs. From experience, finishing early makes it less fun, as you can’t discuss theories about what is happening at the moment…
My strategy is to just read other things on the side to fill the time.

About this week, kinda repeating myself, but I’m still getting Haruhi vibes. In particular the description of える(? I forgot her name already something 反田) reminds me of Haruhi pre-haircut. And we have a mystery afoot…

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#5

千反田. When Satoshi meets her on page 26, he gives a pretty good mnemonic for remembering the first kanji - her family is the “thousands” in the four powers-of-ten families in the town. Which, by the way, is definitely not Takayama in Gifu prefecture, that’s crazy talk - it’s clearly Kamiyama.

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#6

Like a real-life meetup? That’s so cool!

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#7

Yeah, a Japanese professor at my school started one. It’s the first time I’ve been since I graduated, but it made me want to get to campus more often!

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#8

So, page 14, about two thirds of the way across:

女で高校生なのだから女子高生だが、くちびるの薄さや頼りない線の細さに、俺はむしろ女学生という古風な肩書を与えたいような気になる。

Just to confirm, this is something like

Because this girl is a high school student, she’s a “joshikousei”, but because of the paleness and unreliable thin lines of her lips, I rather want to give her an old-fashioned title like “jogakusei”.

yes? Is “jogakusei” old-fashioned? And what’s wrong with her lips?

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#9

大辞林 defines 女学生 as: 旧制女学校の生徒。現在では，主に高校・中学の女生徒をいう。
(another one: 旧制の高等女学校の生徒)

So seems like this word can have that kind of old-fashioned nuance.

線が細い means: 体格や体つきなどが細い、頼りない、繊細な、などの意味の表現。特に、男性について言われる。

So kind of a delicate slender figure.

So it’s like, her lips’ paleness and the slenderness of her figure made him want to call her a 女学生.

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#10

Interesting. But “figure” seems to be missing from this part of the clause - in fact, there’s no noun at all, unless it’s harkening back to くちびる.

Ah, that moment on page 21 when he almost gets away scot free, but then he does what every culprit in Ace Attorney does, and turns back to get in the last word, which traps him.

#11

Well, it does say “体格や体つきなどが細い”, and that’s as close as any to saying “a slender figure”. And, I’m pretty sure this part is not related to her lips.

Edit:

I realized that you meant there’s no “figure” noun in the sentence itself. But that’s totally fine, because this definition is for “線が細い”, in which 線 here acts as the noun (referring to “the line of her body”).

#12
~7%

I want to check my comprehension of this one since I’m not that familiar with this grammar.
手には竹刀こそ持っていないものの、持っていいとなれば持ちたがるに違いないと俺は思った。
I interpret it as ‘Even though he wasn’t holding a bamboo stick, I thought for sure he would have wanted to hold one if it had been possible’ (If it had been good, he would have wanted to hold one)
It sounds a bit weird so I’m not sure.

礼をわきまえて場をわきまえない千反田の態度に、俺はついにやけてしまう。
Not sure about this one. Something about knowing the right way to bow but not the right place/situation?

#13

Uh, no, there is a noun, it’s 細さ (finesse). By the way, coupled with 頼りない線, it makes it sounds like she looks very frail.

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#14

Yep, exactly. Carrying a shinai around would be against school regulations; it’s just a manga/anime trope. Still that teacher looks like the kind who would want to enact that trope.

礼(節)をわきまえる is to remember (practice) proper etiquette
場(所)をわきまえない is to not understand the situation one is in

She is being perfectly polite, but misses the crucial non-verbal clues of the situation.

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#15

You’re breaking it up wrong. 線が細い (delicate, fragile) becomes 線の細さ (fragility). 頼りない modifies that noun phrase.

くちびるの薄さ
や
頼りない線の細さ

her pale lips and helpless/uneasy fragility

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#16

Focused too much on “線が細い” as an expression (in which, 線 is a noun). But yeah taken with 頼りない and の細さ it’s as you said

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#17

I’m dead. This paragraph killed me.

Summary

「神山に旧家名家は少なくないけど、桁けた上あがりの四名家といえばその筋じゃ有名だよ。荒あれ楠くす神社の十じゆう文もん字じ家、書しよ肆し百日紅さるすべり家、豪ごう農のう千反田家、山持ちの万まん人にん橋ばし家さ。数字の桁が一桁ずつ上がっていくから、人呼んで桁上がりの四名家。まあ、この四家に対抗できるとしたら病院長入いり須す家か教育界の重じゆう鎮ちん遠垣内とおがいと家ぐらいのものだね」

Even if I assume that all the long kanji strings are occupations + names I still don’t get the whole thing. Is the 桁 supposed to be about columns or order or magnitude (as in, how important each of them are)? And in the last part I’m even more lost. Are those another 2 families that are the antagonist of the previous 4? Or is it just saying that they are the only ones near that level of importance/popularity? :dizzy_face:

Apart from that I’m done with the reading. At first I was confused about her being inside a locked room and 奉太郎 not saying anything so I was relieved to see I hadn’t missed anything. A bit concerned about the guy’s observation skills though.
And it seems we have our first mystery.

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#18

You know I’ve never looked into 線 to see what it might mean on its own (besides “line”), but it seems like the meaning associated with 線が細い・線が太い is “impression one leaves; air one gives of”, so I guess it works either way.

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#19

Says who?

Ah. Of course.

Orders of magnitude, but it’s nothing to do with relative importance - the names literally increase by orders of magnitude: 十文字＞百日紅＞千反田＞ 万人橋.

And yeah, I think the last line is saying they’re the only ones near that level of importance.

What happened to the small kana in your furigana, though? Just because it’s hard to tell the small from the big in the book doesn’t mean you have to follow suit. :stuck_out_tongue:

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#20

(Necessary repeat of old joke: 市内の学校で竹刀をしない方がいい。)

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