夜カフェ ☕ Chapter 6 (Beginner Book Club)

I think I can do all but one.

First to the ones you already figured out. Weblio has this to say for Page69
くっ‐と [副] 1 こみ上げる笑いをおさえようとして、思わず声のもれるさまを表す語。
for your last one. Rough translation “Word describing the situation when trying to curb a laugh that is welling up, failing to do so, and unintenionally leaking it out”
So the second from the list you linked.

The sekaku describes her feelings there. She always excerted effort to get closer to him and finally she felt like they could make progress. So I’d lean more for your first translation since the せっかく is “directed” to past events and not the future efforts.

That’s the one I’m also not 100% on. I don’t think your translation fits though. Want to throw 澄ます in the ring too.

You got both correct. In the second he gives the reason why he thinks she is disliked. Shes not しっかりする and doesn’t get angry when she should. Because she is so passive she’s easy to be disliked on.

That is a casual rough slightly male way to say ならないよ. So your translation would be more fitting with “I wouldn’t become a trouble to…”

6 Likes

Whew, just finished the chapter. I’m glad that things are becoming more interesting, I’m honestly enjoying this more as time goes on (which I feared may not be the case). I’m also very happy with my progress so far, as I’m able to understand a fair amount more by myself than I did when we began.

But seriously, looking back, we’ve all made a lot of progress. What we’re doing, reading a novel in a foreign language, one as difficult/different as Japanese, is absolutely no small feat. We’ve all spent quite some time getting to where we are now, and it’s paying off. So, let’s all give ourselves a pat on the back, we should be proud!

8 Likes

* ahem * my little speech aside XD I’m glad that we do have a break though. I’ll use it to re-read the last couple of pages from this chapter and perhaps some of the next, as I have some upcoming exams which will hamper the process. But, the summer holidays is after that, so I’ll finally have plenty of time to focus on my Japanese studies.

5 Likes

Thanks for the answers!

Ah, so I guess he’s just assuming here. Which is interesting, considering he knows almost nothing about her troubles and has known her for all of… 3 days or so, in which they barely talked.

Hell yeah! :partying_face:

Maybe I’m misunderstanding and you know that already, but I think it’s still another chapter until the break.

5 Likes

Ah right. Yeah I was mistaken, my bad lol.

4 Likes

Now, I would think of compressive bandage, or something like a mummy (not a native speaker, though).


It’s good that I read this kind of story. I need to learn to adapt.

I am not giving up. I am continuing. (My feelings are here, tracked by datetime by git, but it’s probably ダサい, anyway.)

Apparently, I don’t have that many vocabularies I can’t easily learn in the sewing part. Tina part is more painful for me. (both storyline and linguistically)

視線を宙に泳がせる - https://oshiete.goo.ne.jp/qa/9805870.html. Apparently, 視線 changed to 目.

冷や水?

I guessed this one right, although among other things, I am still まだまだ (like, about to give up).

Some of the questions, and not sure if I understand

  • ミシン - sewing machine, probably comes from "machine"
  • ギンガムチェック - somewhat checkerboard pattern (Gingham), I think.
  • 紙の手提げ not sure if it just means 紙袋
  • 冷やかすな声 cold voice - なadj or a verb?
  • いい子ぶる to play a good girl - not sure how 振る / ぶり works
  • 頭を()る vertigo (dizziness), I think?
  • それらの言葉は出ていってはくれない not sure how it works, but it makes perfect sense if 切れない
  • ティナちゃんにわたそうとしたサブバッグを、取り出してみる。 ??? no meaning for me here
  • 薄ら笑い faint smile. Not sure how the (originally) grammar works.
  • グッと小さな笑みをもらす just a smile, yet some sound is leaked, I think?
  • 似た者同士 seems to be a phrase meaning, “We have some much in common”. 者同士 isn’t in Jisho, though.
On learning style...

It seems more natural to look up vocabularies along the way, leaving minimal misunderstandings, rather than making a list and looking up later on. This is also done to avoid using my laptop, and type in with a keyboard - not picking up a PC. This are already vocabulary history lists in any vocabulary apps.

When the vocabulary isn’t found somehow, I would open a new tab, and search directly in DuckDuckGo (and append " とは" when I really want a definition).

While many people might realize this simply and naturally, I might be either distraught or being blind.

Honestly, I might know a few vocab; as well as can segment and notice inside some text; I still need to learn much more.

I should try to reduce personal vocabularies and phrases to not more than a few. Currently, I read this chapter in two chunks (a chunk is a section). First section is around 1 hour, I think. Second section is longer; but I feel it is better to use meaningful section breaks, rather than pages or image inserts.

Full notes

Section One (1)

  • Hanabi is quite good at sewing.
  • ミシン - sewing machine, probably comes from "machine"
  • チャコペン - a tailor’s chalk (not actual charcoal, but rather- chalk) / designer’s charcoal pencil (actual charcoal)
  • (ばん)(そう)(こう) bandage
    • Common enough as a vocabulary, but too complex (for “Hanabi”'s style) to be written in Kanji, I guess.
    • First Kanji is (きずな), third is 膏 (paste in toothpaste)
  • ()(ちゅう)(およ)がせる - ()(せん)(ちゅう)(およ)がせる
Vocabularies and phrases
  • (ちゅう)()()(こう)
  • (あや)うく
  • こびり()
  • ()(ぎょう)
  • ()() handle
  • ()()
  • ミシン - machine = sewing machine
  • (ほん)(たい)
  • チャコペン - a tailor’s chalk (not actual charcoal, but rather- chalk) / designer’s charcoal pencil (actual charcoal)
  • (あつ)
  • サクサク [onomatopeia]
  • (ほそ)(なが)
  • (なか)(おもて)
  • (かた)(がわ)
  • (つつ)(じょう) cylinder
  • (げん)(けい)
  • ()(あつ)
  • ぐいと [onomatopeia]
  • (がん)(じょう)
  • (かえ)()い backstitch
  • (あせ)ばむ to be covered in sweat
  • (ばん)(そう)(こう) bandage, all in Hiragana in text - first Kanji is (きずな), third is 膏 (paste in toothpaste)
  • ()み (phrases?)
  • ()かべる (phrases?)
  • ブスッとしている [onomatopeia]
  • (さい)(ほう)
  • (しゅう)()
  • (いっ)(ぽう)(てき)
  • ()(ちゅう)(およ)がせる - ()(せん)(ちゅう)(およ)がせる
  • (さえぎ)
  • ()()(なお)
  • (ため)しに
  • びくともしない
  • (あらた)めて

Section Two (2)

  • ギンガムチェック - somewhat checkerboard pattern (Gingham), I think.
  • まっすぐな髪 straight (ストレート) hair, not just - go straight on.
  • 紙の()()げ not sure if it just means ()(ぶくろ)
  • ()やかすな(こえ) cold voice - なadj?
  • いい()ぶる to play a good girl - not sure how ()る / ぶり works
  • 頭を()る vertigo (dizziness), I think?
  • それらの(こと)()()ていってはくれない not sure how it works, but it makes perfect sense if ()れない
  • ティナちゃんにわたそうとしたサブバッグを、()()してみる。 ??? no meaning for me here
  • (うす)(わら)い faint smile. Not sure how the grammar works.
  • グッと小さな()みをもらす just a smile, yet some sound is leaked, I think?
  • ()(もの)(どう)() seems to be a phrase meaning, “We have some much in common”. 者同士 isn’t in Jisho, though.
  • 厄介(やっかい)になんかなんねえよ。 ??? no meaning for me here
Vocabularies and phrases
  • ギンガムチェック - somewhat checkerboard pattern (Gingham), I think.
  • サブバッグ - sub bag; though this vocabulary is quite old in the series.
  • ()()ける
  • なかば - halfway ((なか)ば), like ()(ちゅう)(はん)()?
  • ()()(ばこ) another old vocabulary. The box that has more than 下駄
  • あきらめかける getting hanged in the middle of (あきら)める
  • きりっと neatly dressed
  • まっすぐな髪 straight (ストレート) hair; not just - go straight on.
  • すらり long, slender and well-proportioned
  • (たい)(けい) body type
  • ついでに
  • 紙の()()げ not sure if it just means (かみ)(ぶくろ)
  • ()(けい) unnecessary
  • グイと
  • ()しやる to push something onto someone
  • (あし)(ばや)
  • (ぼう)(ぜん)と dumbfoundedly
  • ()やかすな(こえ) cold voice - なadj?
  • ()()く to turn around
  • いい()ぶる to play a good girl - not sure how ()る / ぶり works
  • ()(なか)にバシャーンと(みず)をかけられたみたいだった。 Yayako splashed some water into Hanabi’s back, it seemed (according to Hanabi’s view)
  • 頭を()る vertigo (dizziness), I think?
  • ()()ける to flat refuse - ()ねる to eliminate; to drive a car into someone; to spring up (like a spring / coil)
  • ()(さわ)る to annoy - (さわ)る to interfere, to be harmful for; can also be (さわ)る to touch (rub the wrong way)
  • それらの(こと)()()ていってはくれない not sure how it works, but it makes perfect sense if ()れない
  • へなへな
  • やけに dictionary tells 自棄(やけ) which is a part of ()(ぼう)()()
  • ティナちゃんにわたそうとしたサブバッグを、()()してみる。 ??? no meaning for me here
  • ()()てる to shout not to… (literally, to vomit and throw away)
  • よみがえる to revitalize, to renew; can also mean, to revisit, to echo
  • (うす)(わら)い faint smile. Not sure how the grammar works.
    • 薄ら笑いをふくんだ声 the sound that includes a faint smile
  • ラフ rough (clothing)
  • (ふく)(そう) clothing, attire
  • ()(かえ)す to be rejected
  • グッと小さな()みをもらす just a smile, yet some sound is leaked, I think?
  • ()(すく)む to shudder, to freeze by surprise
  • ()(もの)(どう)() seems to be a phrase meaning, “We have some much in common”. 者同士 isn’t in Jisho, though.
  • (やっ)(かい)になんかなんねえよ。 That is a casual rough slightly male way to say ならないよ.
  • (わり)
  • (たい)() attitude
  • なんだか somehow
2 Likes

Simpler - shaking her head

The bag I had intended to give to Tina, I took out. (She never got round to giving her the bag.)

3 Likes

渡そうとする - about to pass, right? Now that it’s not so complex.

2 Likes

Because わたそうとした is in the past, I think the meaning is more “attempted to give (and failed)”: https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/1gu059/ようとするしてみる_whats_the_difference/cantox1/

4 Likes

The whole thing is on Jisho as an expression 似た者同士

(when typing this I noticed you might have already figured this one out but figure this might be helpful to someone and it’d be nice to see what people think about what やっかい means here)

I broke this down like

やっかい:Looking it up a bit, I think 厄介 here is the second meaning on Jisho, specifically “staying (with a person)” and looking at a japanese dictionary describes one meaning as 居候(いそうろう)“staying at someones house for free, freeloader” which I think fits the context here well.
なんか:Adds emphasis to the word before it, “Something like, such as,”
なんねえよ:Someone mentioned this earlier I think, but this is a casual/contracted way of saying ならないよ.
So when combined with the part before そうじゃなきゃ愛子さんちに、I think it’s something like “If not for that(referring to sentence before), I wouldn’t do something like become a freeloader at Aiko’s place.”

2 Likes
Some answers

Verb, but being used as a noun-modifying phrase. Not so much a “cold” voice as a “jeering” voice.

Both ぶる and ぶり are just suffixes. ぶり is like style of whatever it is attached to. ぶる is to assume the air of; to behave like whatever it is attached to. You have the meaning, roughly. What specifically are you unsure of?

It’s just a word on it’s own. 薄ら笑い

Unless you’re asking etymology when you say how the grammar originally works, in which case, 薄ら is just a prefix meaning “slight; faint; thin; dim”. It shows up in a couple of other words as well.

I’m not 100% sure of the question here, so just gonna break this one down:

それらの言葉は = Those words

出ていって = 出ていく in て form = to leave

くれない = I think this is the 3rd of meaning 暮れる in negative form. It can’t possibly be 切れない, as that is きれない.

Edit: I corrected myself on this in a comment below!

Overall, it helps to have the full sentence here to get the meaning, with the first two parts being:

必死に走っても = Even though I’m running desperately

頭をふっても = Even though I’m shaking my head

So, including the whole sentence, and adjusting the sentence around for a bit better English:

“Even though I’m running desperately, and even though I’m shaking my head, those words won’t leave me and overcome me.”

That doesn’t really preserve the Japanese structure in any sense, but I think this is a case where trying to do so is a bit difficult purely because the grammar is so different to English. Maybe somebody disagrees with my interpretation, also, but that was my takeaway. Edit: shuffled the sentence around a bit to be a bit closer to Japanese structure, but it’s still not quite the same and doesn’t sound like as clean of an English translation. Suppose that doesn’t expecially matter, but yeah. If there are specific questions about grammar you have, would be best to specify so we know what we should be spending time on. :sweat_smile:

You have a typo. It’s クッと not グッと. The sound that is let out is like a chuckle or a giggle.

I think others have answered the other questions… If anything still remains, let us know. :grin:

2 Likes

Perhaps, verb (sentence) clause, therefore acting as a noun?

I want to see how far I can break down the words and adapt to other things, and your explanation helps, like there is 大人ぶる. There are also things like 悪ぶる

This actually helps, although I also hope for some nice old grammar, like 選ばれし者.

It still doesn’t make much sense. It also connects with how I mistranslated the phrase at first (頭を振る). Is it supposed to be what to be done when そんな言葉が頭の中でグルグルまわる?

Yeah, thanks for the 暮れない explanation, though.

2 Likes

I mean, I know that when I have had some invasive thoughts, or maybe something I don’t want to think about, I’ll kinda instinctively shake my head a bit as if to try to be rid of the thoughts, and I know a lot of people do the same. I guess I don’t know if it’s a universal reaction, and it’s obviously not as though you can physically shake away thoughts, it’s just more of a physiological, instinctive reaction, I think, but I’m fairly certain that is what’s happening here.

The vertigo/dizziness interpretation doesn’t particularly fit here because the ても is giving an “even though” feel. “Even though I’m dizzy” doesn’t really fit. Being dizzy/experiencing vertigo doesn’t do anything to contradict being overwhelmed with negative words, whereas shaking one’s head is at least an attempt to do so. I mean, similarly, you can’t really physically run away from that kind of thing, yet that’s what she is attempting to do. The overall impression of the sentence is to say that despite her trying to do whatever she can physically to be rid of the words that are tumbling around in her head, she is still being overwhelmed with them and can’t get them out of her head.

Does that make more sense?

3 Likes

Now I think about it, 頭を振る won’t be just うなずく and 首を横に振る. It can be much harder, more than just an exercising your neck as well.

1 Like

Ah, apologies for my mistake, but I’m going to correct myself on くれない. It’s not 暮れる, on second thought, after waking up a little more and paying better attention.

The 出ていってはくれない is the てくれる grammar point, with は adding a level of emphasis.

The original くれる I gave wouldn’t make sense in retrospect; it’s in negative form.

it also makes the sentence translation feel better as:

Even though I’m running, even though I’m shaking my head, those words just won’t leave."

1 Like

You have probably noticed that redundancy is common in Japanese: not a thing to be avoided the way it is in English, but a way to add emphasis.

2 Likes
A recent example of some redundancy for emphasis (that also broke my brain for a moment when I tried to read it quickly):

4 Likes

If for (て)くれる that goes hand-in-hand with (て)もらう, it still doesn’t make sense (who gives? who offers?), although it is definitely more common this way.

It is possible that it means - didn’t Tina say that? But は in front of くれない?

I should resume the stance that I don’t yet know how the sentence work (or the actual vocabulary).

1 Like

てくれる doesn’t necessarily have to have an actual person as the giver. You’ll see てくれる a lot in many ways where that isn’t the case. If I were to try and make it make sense here, I would say the “giver” of the action in this sense is the negative words, with Hanabi being the recipient. (Though, since this is in the negative, she is actually not receiving the verb).

“Even though I’m running desperately, even though I’m shaking my head, those words just won’t do me the favor of leaving.”

It sounds odd in English, but in Japanese, is perfectly normal.

4 Likes

A little of a stretch, but it could work. Thanks. (It’s also a matter of that, I can’t find parallel sentences in translations / grammar explanations.)

1 Like