ふだ vs さつ (札) - Is the WK card wrong?

Hello everyone!

So, I was studying today and encounter this little buster: 札

I might be wrong, so please correct me in case, but isn’t this card wrong and mixed up?

https://www.wanikani.com/vocabulary/〜札

According to jisho.org:

http://jisho.org/word/札-1
http://jisho.org/word/札

and by my shogakukan dictionary, ふだ is the noun for “label” (and it’s not a suffix, as stated on the WK card) and さつ is actually the suffix for bills. If my assertion is true, the card from the above link should not have the tilde in the definition and should lose the “suffix” tag :\ Should there be a separate card for the suffix version?

This other card seems to be fine:

https://www.wanikani.com/vocabulary/千円札

Again, I might be completely and HORRIBLY wrong, so please correct me in case :slight_smile:

Cheers

ふだ is definitely used as a suffix as well, such as 番号札.

Shogakukan is a publisher, and not a specific dictionary, so I’m not sure which one you’re using. But looking at daijirin, The first definitely for さつ is in fact ① ふだ。木のふだ。So there’s a good amount of overlap in the word. さつ can be a suffix sometimes, but it doesn’t seem to be a productive one, at least in my experience.

As an anecdote, さつ seems to be either Yakuza slang, or part of literary language, mainly.

Hey! Hi!

Shogakukan is a publisher, and not a specific dictionary

Ahaha yeah pardon me, you’re right. It’s just that a friend of mine presented it to me as “THE shogakukan” at the time when I started to study japanese and it just stuck in my head somehow that way. The one in my possession is the 中辞典 (not the mightiest admittedly).

番号札

Aren’t this actually two nouns in succession?

さつ can be a suffix sometimes

Isn’t this the case when it’s used for counting banknotes’ value?

Also I don’t exclude I’m taking the term “suffix” all wrong actually… In my head a “suffix” is something similar to a word “root” (like in latine) or a numeral counter (in the specific japanese case).

I understand your pain, as I originally studied using TextFugu and its accompanying Anki Deck sets, from which the latter evolved into WaniKani. In the Anki decks there were only さつ kanji and vocab cards, only one vocab card was with ふだ (花札 / はなふだ).
Now with WaniKani asking the ~札 vocab, I routinely enter さつ, just to be demoted back into guru…

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Perhaps it’s the best to just define the word “suffix” here. To use English as an example, a suffix is what goes on the end of a word, but they can exist in two ways, productive, such as “-ed” which you can add to basically anything to make it past tense, and unproductive suffixes, those which are affixed to certain words but you can’t just go around adding them to other words. This would be something like -ibly, which exists as a suffix in a word like “audibly” and “forcibly” but you can’t just go around adding it to other words.

Generally, the words that use 〜 on WK are productive suffixes, such as 〜時

Now with all that said, the only version of the Example sentence’s word I can find on Forvo is here and they say さつ, while they are many other words like 守り札 the case of actual money seems rather ambiguous but it’s not a word that I hear often in my every day life so it could be either.

I keep getting the suffix card wrong by typing “さつ”. :\

I’m not good enough at Japanese to argue which pronunciation is more useful to learn, but I feel like 〜ふだ must be pretty rare given that it’s pronounced 〜さつ in all three of WaniKani’s example sentences:

  • 一万円札を小ぜににくずしてもらえませんか?
  • この二千円札、千円札二枚と両がえしてくれない?
  • トーフグのオフィスのあちこちに、百ドル札が隠されているらしいぜ。

… or at least that’s the only way I’ve ever heard a teacher pronounce it. :man_shrugging:

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This came up recently. They’re making a change, though it must not have gone through yet.

ふだ is very common, merely as a plain tag or in things like “name tag” なふだ

I just checked as I kept getting this wrong in the vocab tests and I think that WK have now updated the card so in the vocab purple test if you see 〜札 this isさつ and means a note/banknote and plain old 札 with no ~ means “tag” or “label” so it is ふだ.

They did update it and made a topic to announce it (as well as other changes).

It feels good to be confirmed right after so long :stuck_out_tongue:

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