それでも歩は寄せてくる | Week 5 Discussion ♟

第07-08局

Pages 59-76

Start Date: 7th August
Previous Week: 第05-06局
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それでも歩は寄せてくる - Home Thread

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Finished read the chapter 7th and I have few questions this time around!

p. 59

なんですか
そのアホみたいな
やつは
For アホ I have tried to look for a meaning, but the only definition I get is “fool; idiot; simpleton” .

Why やつ is put at the end of the sentence? In this context, is it still correct to get it as “guy, fellow”?

p. 63

やめろ!
落差で死ぬ!
Okay, センパイ is embarrassed for what 田中 said earlier, but what’s the meaning of this expression? I don’t have the faintest idea about this one.

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Page 59

I think this use of やつ is a more casual もの. The アホみたいなやつ I believe is referring to her pose/exclamation in the first panel. The アホみたい portion is describing the やつ as looking like (みたい) a fool/idiot (アホ).

Note also that he’s first asking a question, then he’s adding the topic after to clarify what he’s asking about. Said in “order”, it would be:

「そのアホみたいなやつはなんですか」

Page 63

落差(らくさ) is referring to the difference between “all the guys in the world are too blind to see how cute you are” to “you’re so overly cute that none of them will make a move”. If I’m understanding correctly, he basically went from “none of the guys have noticed how cute you are” to “actually, all the guys think you’re cute, but they don’t feel they can approach someone overly as cute”. I think it’s going from “none of the boys notice you” to (an implied) “all the boys are interested in you” that she’s saying she’ll die from.

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In case anyone wants to see how 将棋崩し looks like in action:

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I read chapter 7 - first without looking up vocab (I hardly understood anything, and it didn’t help that I did not know what a 返事 is, haha), then once more with a dictionary. I think I got the gist pretty well, but there’s a lot of details that elude me.

I’m wondering what’s the best way to approach this, with this being my first manga (and my first book club). Should I try to understand all the details I don’t get, or just be happy that I the gist, or something inbetween? I don’t wanna completely swamp you with questions either.

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Personally I think trying to understand as much as possible is going to be what helps you the most - it’ll get you asking more questions, looking more things up, and reinforcing things through repeated exposure (bonus points if you start putting stuff that you notice being common - through frequency info, or just seeing it a lot - into an SRS like Anki)

Don’t worry about asking too many questions - that’s what the thread is here for after all. There will be plenty of people willing to try and help explain something because that’s also a good way of reinforcing grammar stuff

And I think if you can get the gist of something, especially if you’re still fairly early on in your journey, then that’s something to be proud of. You’ve read something in another language, and that in itself is pretty special

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I’ll second what @VikingSchism wrote.

Ask questions, as many as needed. We’re covering 16 pages per week. If you ask questions on three pages per day (or more if the pace works for you), you’ll probably find that after a few weeks, the number of questions you have will have steadily decreased over that time.

I recommend aiming to learn as much grammar (used in the material) as you can, but don’t expend to understand it all right away. Most of the grammar you’ll see over and over again, allowing it to sink in over time.

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people love that shit bro, you could ask a hundred questions back to back and get an answer for every single one haha.
no seriously, take advantage of this fact, i personally go for general gist when i do my solo anime/manga immersion, but i have found going for 100% understanding with the bookclub manga is so so good, i highly recommend it.

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First page panel in chapter 7 is bugging me.

Summary

The last thing Urushi says. Mainly the 上. I know 上, it’s so early in WK. But its usage here is… new to me, I think. Jisho lists before/previous as a possibility, is it that? Like, is わかった上 something like to already know? As in, like, you knew and were making fun of me? I think something like that is the general gist here, just want confirmation because I’ve exclusively seen 上 used in physical “above” / “raise” / etc contexts.

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Not completely sure but I believe 上で here is a specific grammar structure that means “after” or “upon” when used after a verb in the past tense. (Bunpro link).

わかった上でバ力にしてたの?

わかった上で => after understanding
バ力にしてた => made fun of (me)

So basically Urushi thought Ayumu was making fun of her without actually understand what her silly pose meant, and is now surprised to see that she was made fun of even though Ayumu already understood was that 「と」 pose meant.

A possible natural English translation would be:

“Even though you understood (what it meant), you made fun of me!?”

The only thing that I find strange is that 上で is a rather formal structure, which is rare for Urushi to use. Wouldn’t be the first time I see it used rather informally though.

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Hey, welcome!

I just started with Ayumu too, but I’ve been here since chapter 1 (and doing plenty of extracurricular reading, recently). Everyone’s already given you good advice but I just want to say, I think just as much of this (or at least it was for me) is initially learning how to parse and figure out exactly what you don’t know. Do your best to look up and ask about anything you don’t understand, but I think you’ll get a feel for where your own attention is best directed over time. There are sometimes panels I think are just too far off for me to bother asking about, but there are usually a few I’m close enough on, and those are most instructive. There are gonna be sentences where just getting the gist is an accomplishment too, and enjoy those still. Either way, asking here is never bad!

Edit: And thanks for the explanation on 上で! Super helpful.

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Come to think of it, the only time I recall encountering わかった上 is from Fuuko in Clannad, and she (matching what you wrote) speaks formally to Tomoya and the others as they’re her せんぱい.

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Thank you for all the encouragement! I’ll ask away, then!

p. 59
  1. What’s the point of the と gesture? Is it refering to a previous chapter? (I skipped those for now to join you here.) Or some sort of common Japanese gesture?
p. 61
  1. しかもちゃんと手紙で返事しようと…誠実な奴だ!
    Does the sentence mean something like “Let alone him earnestly using a letter for the reply… what a sincere guy!”?
    What is the しよう there? Is that a volitional する? Is it 使用 in hiragana? And is the と this here と | Japanese Grammar SRS? I’m not sure how this all comes together.

  2. そんなとこあんな感じで登場したの…たしかにアホみたいだな私
    Something like “[???], with him feeling like this, I came in… I certainly looked like an idiot.”?
    What is the とこ?
    Does あんな感じで mean something like “with those (earnest) feelings of his (in mind)”?
    What’s the か there?

p. 62
  1. い…いや…そういうは自分の言葉が大切だと思う
    Is the いや a 嫌? Or something else? It does mean “I don’t want to”, right?
    Is the の Adjective + の(は) | Japanese Grammar SRS? Like “such a thing”?
    The し (and the one in the next sentence) is marking this as a list of multiple reasons, right?

  2. そういうのももらったユト…ないし
    What’s the ユト?

  3. センパイラブレターもらったユトないんですか?
    Is that “Please explain/clarify… you haven’t received a love letter?”

  4. 悪かった!!
    Is that “It’s awful [that I haven’t gotten one], isn’t it?” Or “You’re awful!” because she thinks he’s making fun of her for not receiving a love letter?
    What’s exactly is the な doing there?

  5. どーせ私は
    What’s the どーせ? Is it vocab, grammar? I can’t find it on jisho, bunpro or non-Japanese google.

Upon reading the pages a third time, I’m realizing how many of the parts that tripped me up were just casual ている forms with the い omitted. It’s interesting to see so many instances of something that I knew existed, but which is not really repeated in my Genki 2 textbook after they mentioned it like once.

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haven’t answered everything to a satisfying degree, so it would be great if someone else could fill the gaps and correct my mistakes.

p. 59
  1. as far as i know it’s the symbol for a promoted pawn in shogi, but i don’t know if it has any deeper meaning than her wanting to play shogi.
p. 61, not 100% sure here, help needed

(point 2 is wrong)
2. i assume it’s this 〜ようと思う・〜おうと思う | Japanese Grammar SRS
with the 思ってる omitted, because she’s is speaking of his intentions, unsure though.

3.とこ short for ところ, which has a few different meanings and functions, but in this case i assume it just means “place” but maybe matter? and 感じ in this case “impression”.
so “entering at this kind of place/matter, with an impression like that(making that kind of impression)…? I certainly looked like an idiot.”

p.62 last point unsure
  1. yes, yes and し has that use, but it’s different when used as a sentence ender grammar - し at the end of the sentence - Japanese Language Stack Exchange

  2. afaik its コト or こと, basically makes the verb or clause a noun

  3. yes, but the “please explain” is implied at most, imo it sounds like he’s suprised. also コト/こと again.

  4. its like ね but harsher/more masculine, searching for confirmation like ね

  5. that line elongates the sound before, so it should be どうせ but honestly i’m still unsure what exactly she is saying in the last clause of that speech bubble, because i don’t know if the sentence is cut off, i think it is.

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I will answer what I can, but others might have some better answers on some of these things.

Pg. 59

Symbol of a promoted pawn in shogi, and based on some of the previous chapters, I get the sense that Urushi has a particular fondness for the pawn piece in Shogi, though I could be incorrect. Chapter 4, specifically serves as an example of that, for me.

It’s also not a dissimilar pose to the one her hand takes whenever she is holding a shogi piece, but I don’t know if that’s related or a coincidence.

Pg. 61
  1. I read it as, “Moreover, he is trying to properly write a letter in response… What a sincere guy!” But I’m actually sorta doubting myself as I start to type up my response. Volitional form + とする would be “trying” (which is how I read that), but I realise now that there is no する after the と. I wonder if it’s something that can be dropped? Hm. Somebody else should probably answer this, now, but I’ll leave my ramblings as an addition to your question.

  2. I think とこ is referring to place, in this instance
    あんな感じで = that kind of impression, I think
    It’s not just か, it’s のか. When used in a case like this, Phrase A のか Phrase B, it turns the first sentence into an indirect/embedded question, which is explained by the second phrase, in a sense. 〜のか - Grammar - Kanshudo

So:

そんなとこにあんな感じで登場した = “Coming into this place with such an impression”

のか = indirect/embedded question

たしかにアホみたいだな私 = “I certainly looked like an idiot”

Altogether, it’s like @wanikani_94032 answered, “Entering this place like that, making that kind of impression/with that in mind… I certainly looked like an idiot.”

Pg. 62
  1. 悪かったな, I took to be a sarcastic, “Well, sorry.”
    悪い can sometimes be used to mean, “my bad/sorry,” and I think it fits the context well if it’s being used sarcastically.
    どうせ = “At any rate”
    I also think that she is cut off by Ayumu, and that’s supposed to be her going, “At any rate, I-”

But I could also be incorrect on both of my interpretations.

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Seems like all your questions have been answered! I just want to add something about the あんな感じで (pg 61):
I always translate that as “In that way”. The “Impression” translation that @wanikani_94032 and @MrGeneric use is probably closer to a literal translation, so maybe sticking with that is better… But maybe this makes the sentence feel more natural.
So the whole sentence reads as “… So in that situation I have entered in that way…”

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This is the perfect time to mention: when you’re first starting to read, much of the grammar and explanations here may seem a bit all over the place. That’s because there’s a lot to take in. It’s perfectly fine to not absorb most of it right away. You’ll be seeing the same grammar over and over. You may recognize it a little bit next time, or you may not recognize it at all and ask about the same grammar in a future sentence. That’s all part of the process.

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I have finished Chapter 7, and will read Chapter 8 tomorrow morning. My questions are pretty much just the ones leftover in my response to @TobiasW above, so nothing extra on that front, but I do have to say I love the art style of this manga. Some of the facial expressions legitimately make me burst out laughing. The two in this chapter that got me were:

Pg. 64

I can feel that へ? in my soul.

Pg. 66

image

She is just so clearly done in this. :laughing:

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p. 59
  1. Ah, makes sense! Thanks!
p. 61
  1. Hmmm. I’ll keep that in mind and see if it happens anywhere else.
  2. Gotcha!
p. 62
  1. Which of the linked uses you think the し is? I probably didn’t describe it properly before - I thought both of the し mark both of those sentences as reasons for why she doesn’t want to do it.
  2. Oooh, コト makes a lot more sense than ユト, haha.
  3. Ah, I see. It’s a bit hard to tell with his stoic face and without voice, haha.
  4. I see. I gotta admit that a ね type ending doesn’t make too much sense for me here, but I’ll just roll with it for now and see where else that comes up.
  5. Aaaah, it’s elongated to show how she says it, not because it’s part of the word! I would’ve never gotten that on my own, haha. Thanks!
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@MrGeneric

p. 59

Ah! Guess I’ll get more of a sense for that when I read the other chapters.

p. 61
  1. Seems like that grammar point isn’t too easy - that’s the second different explanation, hum. I mean, it probably doesn’t change too much of the sentence, but I’m still curious.
  2. Thanks for the extensive explanation here! I’m not sure I properly understand that grammar point (and it’s implications on this sentence), but now I know that it exists and I’ll be on the lookout for more examples.
p. 62
  1. Ooooh! I don’t have the slighest idea if it’s the right interpretation obviously, but it makes a lot of sense considering the context and her facial expression.

@Jiell

Yeah! Book clubs are my new favourite thing :sparkling_heart:

And thanks for the additional translation. DeepL and Google Translate also think it might be “like that”, which is really close to yours.


@ChristopherFritz
Thanks for the reassurances! Don’t worry, I might ask a lot of questions, but I’ll take it easy if I don’t understand everything perfectly. I got a bit stressed earlier while learning Japanese, e.g. about groups of words that seemed to say the same or with subtle differences, but these days I’m a bit more relaxed and open to ambiguity - it’s a long game and it’ll all become clearer sooner or later.


One question might still be open (or at least unsure):

p. 61
  1. Both @wanikani_94032 and @MrGeneric had different ideas what the しようと in しかもちゃんと手紙で返事 しようと …誠実な奴だ! might be (based on what might be omitted), and neither seemed to sure.

…also, sorry for the post spam. I considered to make it into one post with name tags halfway through, but then realized I cannot actually delete my previous posts without still leaving a “[Post deleted by author]” post. Next time it’ll all be one post, I promise!

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