Yet another grammar+vocab advice-seeking thread - Genki and BunPro

Hello everyone!

Yup, here’s another one of those pesky “how do I tackle grammar and vocab” advice-seeking threads :slight_smile:

Sooo…
Bought Genki 1+2, bought the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar set, also English Grammar for Students of Japanese (I’ll need it as English is not my mother tongue) and Jay Rubin’s Making Sense of Japanese. Yeah, I like the feel of turning book pages more than browsing the Internet :slight_smile:
But I did also subscribe to JapanesePod101 for audio, found TokiniAndy’s Genki series on YT as well as CureDolly (although the voice and the doll are really creeping me out) for supplimentary resources.
Then I found out BunPro exists, too :slight_smile:

The initial thinking was that I’d go through the Genki materials at a slow pace, one lesson a week or even slower to really nail down the grammar.

But now… I think I want to do a 180 on that and go through it as quickly as possible: 2-3 maybe even more lessons per week depending on the complexity of the materials. So that I can get to the juicy bits quicker: that is, reading and listening to actual enjoyable content :slight_smile:

But before I create an account on Bunpro I thought I’d ask for opinions and tips here first, so as to make the most of that first month free and also to finalize the ‘learning plan’ :slight_smile:

At the moment I am doing WaniKani lessons in the morning (SRS stage 1), followed by SRS stages 2 and 3 in the same day.
Same schedule with KameSame, picking up Guru-level items from WK.
On a ‘hard’ day WK+KS can take up to 2h.

Now for grammar, I was thinking something along the lines of:

  • day 1: Read through one or two lessons in Genki, go through the textbook exercises (those that aren’t stupid), start the corresponding grammar lessons in BunPro in the afternoon (SRS stage 1) and follow in the evening (SRS stage 2).
  • day 2: BunPro stage 3 in the morning (which will then push stage 4 and later on mornings), and later in the day review grammar points in the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar (maybe only the trickier ones?), watch TokiniAndy’s corresponding videos, do Genki workbook exercises
  • days 3&4 and 5&6 rinse and repeat with other lessons
  • whenever there’s time to spare along this schedule listen to more JP101 podcasts and do some shadowing
  • day 7 give it a rest (BunPro reviews only)

Of course, if the lessons become too difficult or life gets in the way slow down a bit. But carry on daily with WK and BP reviews - gotta stick to that schedule!
That’s actually why I want to end up with the bulk of BunPro reviews in the mornings, keeping WK geared towards the evenings.
And I expect KameSame will have to go on hiatus, not enough time for everything…

Maybe this would work for grammar, maybe not. Any opinions or suggestions are more than welcome :slight_smile:
I do have a direct question, though:
Could I maybe skip the Genki exercises and rely on the BunPro ones for now?
With the idea that I’d be further solidifying the grammar (and vocab too) as I progress with reading ‘actual’ books later on.

And there’s also the second part of the equation: vocabulary.
I hear BunPro also offers vocab decks, I think there’s one even for Genki?
Should I maybe start one week in advance (more? less?) with vocabulary so that it would make going through the Genki lessons a bit easier?
Also, what BunPro vocab decks would you recommend for someone who so far has only acquired vocab from WK plus some 60-70 words from JP101?

And finally… what spanners do y’all wanna throw in the works? :slight_smile:
What haven’t I thought of? What else might work better?

Thanks much in advance!

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Bunpro has several decks for Genki I: Grammar only and complete (grammar and vocab). Same set of 2 decks for the 2. edition and the 3. edition of the book. I would suggest looking at them and deciding if you want to control how much grammar you get and when (go with the separate deck) or if you want to get everything in the same package (go with the complete deck).

The other option is to do the Bunpro grammar deck (then you get the grammar points in the order that Bunpro thinks is the best) and the Bunpro vocab deck. If you go through all of Bunpro’s N5 grammar, you’ll cover most of Genki’s grammar. If you go through all of Bunpro’s N5 vocab, you’ll cover most of Genki’s vocab.

I had some previous experience with Japanese, so I went quickly through Bunpro’s N5 grammar, 5 grammar points per day. Now I’m going through Bunpro’s N4 grammar, 1 grammar point per day. You can always start going through one deck, decide it’s not for you, and start another deck.

But most of all, don’t wait too long before you dive into native content! The Bunpro beginner bookclub started the first volume of Yotsuba this week, which is great for beginners. There’s also the Absolute beginners bookclub here on Wanikani. As long as you’re willing to look up grammar and vocab and ask questions when needed, you can start as early as you like!

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that’s what I did (but just 1-2 days in advance), and it worked really well! I put it into Anki manually, which meant I was basically ready to start the chapter right away because most of the words were fresh in my mind. Are you aware Genki has a front half/ back half? You might not need the back half (kanji), but after Ch 6 or so, the readings get interesting, so I still recommend keeping an eye on those because it is good reading practice.

What I did for Genki I (not necessarily recommended)

Read skit (even if I don’t understand it all), put vocab into Anki, read grammar points, do the easiest workbook exercises (unless they feel dull or you’ve got another plan for that), then the book exercises. Then I would look at the kanji in the second half of the book and do those reading/exercises. Then the second half workbook. And I think the last thing I did was the listening exercise from the workbook (last page of first half for that chapter), and then the skit, which is now pretty easy to understand.

That’s all a bit overkill, so instead, I’d just suggest deciding for you what the minimum is, and checking off the pages as you go. and moving on. If there is a point you have trouble with, you can always go back and do more.

I personally really don’t like SRS for grammar, but try it out, some people seem to love that! So you’ve got to kind of feel around on a lot of these things what is better for you. Don’t be afraid to change your strategy. Sometimes certain tools work great for a few months, and then you’re ready for something different. I mean, it’s also not good to just jump around, but equally, pay attention to what you most need, and check in with yourself now and then to make sure your routine is still helpful. It’s ok to ditch things. In fact, often that’s the only way forward.

Just one thing:

make a big plan as you have and write it down. And at the top - highlight just one thing, that you will definitely do each day. That way, on a good day, you might make it through your whole routine. But if all you do is that one thing - you win. Because if you always do that one thing, you will eventually get really good at Japanese. Every 8-12 weeks, review your plan and decide if you need something different as your #1 focus. There are a few people who really do manage to make a big plan and implement all of it, and they totally rock socks. But often what I see, and what happened to me, is that life gets in the way, and having a big plan to catch up on can make it harder to keep up with and get back into after a break. Since March last year, I made more progress than in all the 6-7 years before, because I knew what my 1 thing was. I didn’t do kanji (much) or grammar (much) et etc, I just made sure I read every single day. And 1 year later now that that is an iron habit, I’m adding just one more thing. It really takes the pressure off, and I’m a lot kinder to myself and realistic about things. And amazingly, that is translating to more progress, not less!

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Highly recommend watching these. It gives that ‘classroom’ vibe and he provides additional context that is sometimes left out in the textbook. I like to watch his videos first, then read the explanations in the chapter afterwards.

Just to provide a goalpoint for you: casual verb forms are introduced in chapters 8-9. You will need these for manga! I actually started reading with the help of the ABBC when I was at Genki chapter 6, so it’s totally possible. Difficult, but possible.

As for Bunpro, everyone is different. I didn’t like it when I did the one month free trial, so I don’t use it. Some users on the forum swear by it though.

I’m not sure you need the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar right now. It might be one too many resources here. :slightly_smiling_face:

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My main take is that more than an hour of SRS a day can lead to rapid burn out, and, SRS teaches you much less about the language than it feels like it is.

My prefered route would be to spend that time reading level-0 graded readers.

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Thanks for the info on Bunpro options.

I’ll understand better once I get the account set up (I’ll sign up this weekend) but I was imagining that if I go with the Genki path for grammar, then I just click somewhere to tell it “now give me these X Y and Z lessons / A B C grammar points that I just went through in the textbook” - akin to the advanced lesson picker here on WK. And maybe something similar for the vocab deck - “now give me the vocab for lesson X because that’s the one next in the queue for me in the textbook”.

I do know that Bunpro is built around their own N-level paths and that the examples for each grammar path stick on top of the previous one in their path.
But I prefer the textbook structured approach so I’ll try that way first, as you say I could in theory switch to different decks if that doesn’t work out.

As for the beginner book clubs here and there - I honestly don’t know. I’ve not looked thoroughly into what books are picked, but I’ve a feeling they wouldn’t be to my liking. I know I gotta start with simple stuff, but if there’s nothing at all interesting in their content… ugh :frowning:
I was actually thinking of testing the waters with NHK Easy (news I’m okay with) after some decent progress into Genki and and when I’m relatively comfortable with reading there (right now it’s frustrating because I have to look up something like 90% of words and I just give up) then I’d check out the content on Satori Reader hoping they have something enticing.

Of course this is all just ‘on paper’ for now and it’s not at all unlikely I’ll change my mind soon enough :slight_smile:

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A-haaa! Vocab just a couple of days before a lesson does make sense, thanks!
It’ll be nice if Bunpro allows that approach with selective vocab items based on the next textbook lesson.

I did know about front+back, yes… What I didn’t know was that the back-half ones concentrate on kanji, so thank you!
Yeah I’d skip the kanji and just go over readings as you suggested.

WK SRS is cute (my first SRS ever) maybe I’ll like BP for grammar too, but if not… well I’ll have one free month to find out :slight_smile:

I’ll have to find out how long it actually takes to do all these things as I go on. I have some time to spare (diverted from other less important activities but… oh, well) but it’s not unlimited. And there’s also the risk of burnout when it all becomes too much…

And thanks for the suggestion around having a plan with certain ‘priority’ items!

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Hey that’s a nifty idea, thanks!
I think it would work with the ‘one lesson a day’ approach. More than one… I’d be looking at 4h of watching YT, that’s simply too much. Maybe if I quit my day job :rofl:

Yeah, only if I find something that I don’t understand from neither the textbook nor from Andy. I sincerly hope that’ll never happen with these ‘begginer’ materials, otherwise I’m in trouble :slight_smile:

I hear ya!
However I am curious: in that ‘one hour a day’ do you count the total of both lessons and reviews or just one session?
At the moment, with 12-15 lessons/day in WK alone and the accumulated reviews I reach that 1h mark with three sessions.
Not always, some days all items ‘click’ easily and I finish the whole shebang (lessons+review1+review2) under 30mins, but usually it takes longer than that. I even got quite upset yesterday when I made IMHO too many mistakes :frowning:
For now it’s fine and I actually like it to an extent, but probably soon after I add BP it won’t be so fun anymore :worried:

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There are combined decks with both grammar and vocabulary on Bunpro. It will just give you the content in a different order than the Bunpro default. I believe the decks (including Genki) are ordered by appearance in the textbook, so you just click a button to learn new content and you don’t need to go searching for it.


I am doing Bunpro without using a textbook. I’ve found that I often make it through a few chapters of textbooks before giving up. I’m not entirely sure why; maybe I just have a short attention span. I think it’s partially because I try to move too quickly and skip reviews or even just gloss over vocabulary, then get frustrated on later lessons when I make mistakes or forget the early content.

The content on Bunpro is composed of little lessons that are reused for each of the decks (that is, you’re getting the same material whether you use the Genki deck or the default Bunpro deck; it will just be in a different order). I have apparently studied all of the grammar from Genki I and about half of the grammar from Genki II, though my vocabulary is lagging behind.

There’s about seven vocabulary words for every grammar point, and I think that might explain why I can’t make it through textbooks. It’s boring. Maybe I would be able to make it through if I studied the vocabulary in advance.

I might actually try to read through the textbooks once I have learned more vocabulary to reinforce the things I’ve learned. That’s an idea that’s somewhat similar to

but over a longer time.


This is a very good idea. Learning the vocabulary first would make it so much easier to follow the text.

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That worked for me. I styarted reading the level 0 graded readers at about Level 4 on WK. It helps and I didn’t have to look up everything. It ws fun!

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The whole lot. One hour is just approximate - the actual amount people can cope with varies. You can do 30 mins one day, 2 hours the next, and it’s fine, but if you end up doing 2 hours or more most days I’d say that’s too much for most people.

If you do too much, long term - six months maybe - as you start to tire of the SRS grind, the mistakes increase, the frustration rises, and you start to have negative feelings towards it. That increases the mistakes, etc, etc, and it just becomes impossible to learn anything from it.

The other danger is you end up having memorized 2500 Kanji, 10,000 words, and 1500 grammar points, but still have to think when you see or hear actual Japanese. Or worse still, don’t recognise a word because it’s in a different font…

Anyway - I would try and think of SRS as an addition to your Japanese learning, not the core of it.

As always, this advice is worth what you paid for it :slight_smile:

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@northpilot
Appreciate the details about BP. Yeah, I might end up hating the textbooks. At the moment I just have some fond memories from my school days, now long behind :slight_smile:

Re. level-0 graded readers: with those available free of charge on Tadoku it can’t hurt to give them a try. Who knows, maybe I’ll actually end up liking them :man_shrugging:

And by the way: how do you view bilingual books? Are they ‘usable’/suitable early on?
I saw a couple for sale here locally - Japanese+English. Physical books, that is.

Sadly, graded readers or for that matter any kind of printed books/manga in Japanese aren’t available, I’ll have to get them from our pal Bezos whenever I get to that stage.

This actually happened to me the other day, with much fewer kanji learned. If I see any during a review here, all good. But a few evenings ago I watched a Japanese film (Kuroi ame - good, but a difficult watch due to the subject matter) and as the end credits rolled, I was staring blankly at the cast. The English subs showed the romanized names and then it dawned on me that some of the kanji I actually knew; or better said, I was supposed to know. Sure enough, pause and look again and yes, that’s one there’s another…
It was one more reason for me to push forward the grammar study with the aim of getting to read sooner rather than later. Learning the kanji and vocab in complete isolation (which is where I am now) doesn’t really do much :slightly_frowning_face:

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You can start right now: チワワの花すけ〜お花見 – にほんごたどく

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I have a question.
Would it be better to not do genki grammar excercises and go through tokini andy and read the chapter explanations?
I find genki grammar excercises repetitive and boring.
So is it it better to see read through the grammar points quickly and come across them while immersing.
Honestly i just want to get done with N4 grammar.
I started grammer late.

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My personal experience is that they’re a bit too tough for a beginner, unless you’re willing to put in a lot of time and effort for every story to learn the vocabulary and break down the grammar. I think beginners would benefit more from material designed to slowly introduce new concepts. If the books have extended explanations, though, they might be helpful.


Anyway, you have listed a ton of resources in this thread (textbooks, grammar books, podcasts and videos, WaniKani, KameSame, Bunpro, graded readers, …). I don’t think you can realistically expect to keep up with all of them. Honestly, it sounds like you are already be spending a lot of time on Japanese, but this is a marathon, not a sprint.

My unsolicited advice is to make it to about level 10 on WaniKani and start working through Bunpro—in the Genki order, with the videos you mentioned as a supplement—as the core of your study routine before you start adding more and more materials. You can quickly overwhelm yourself by adding reading, multiple SRS platforms, podcasts, lessons, and textbooks all at once (unless you’re like @NeoArcturus and want to spend hours a day learning Japanese).

Graded readers (and platforms like Satori Reader) seem like a good option once you have a solid foundation, but I think it’s reasonable to wait until you have completed most of the N5 grammar on Bunpro and know some of the early kanji and vocabulary on WaniKani so you have some background knowledge and a sense of direction.

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Gonna throw my 42 cents in here as well: I don’t think this is necessary to get to level 10, but it’s definitely helpful. I started going through Bunpro when I was level 5, and even though I was very fast, I had to brute force a lot of stuff into my memory because of how many words and kanji there were that I didn’t understand. I wrote about this yesterday in my study log, but going through the earlier grammar points now, I understand so much more, and the structures make so much more sense because I know more words, more kanji and more grammar. A lot of grammar points are just made from other grammar points.

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Re. level-0 graded readers

Erm… not quite ready even for those.
I tried the other day buuut… They specify from the get-go ‘do not use a dictionary’ and I don’t have the basic vocab needed even for these level-0 titles. I may know that kanji 花 is ‘flower’ but I have no idea what 花すけ means (just an example, same goes for non-kanji words really) and it’s just demoralizing :frowning_face:
That’s the problem with getting vocab only from WK I suppose.

I am hoping that after a few weeks of Genki and some of its more common/basic vocab I could take another stab at it. I wouldn’t expect to simply understand ‘everything’ right away but still…

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No I know, I know.

It helps a bit that right now there’s not much going on at work, nor at home. That won’t always be the case of course, but I might as well take advantage of the free time I have. But still being mindful of potential burnout…

KameSame definitely needs to take a break once I take on Bunpro. Production isn’t critical right now anyway since I don’t have anyone to speak with in Japanese.

Podcasts are only for when I’m out and about, really - on my way to some thing or another, listen to some guys and gals speaking in Japanese instead of listening to music.

Graded readers could be squeezed in during breaks/downtime at work and if I actually understand the content (lol) it might even be relaxing vs work stuff.
(EDIT- If I’ll find them interesting, that is. I’m not optimistic about them. And if not just hold back until done with N4 grammar and get on Satori or find something else.)

Wish that I could, but I can barely keep up with the study log updates, never mind the actual learning he/she is undertaking :rofl:

That’s an interesting viewpoint, thank you!
I suppose if it all becomes a bit too much I could always scale back or put on hold for a bit…
Definitely hope it won’t come to that, though :slight_smile:

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I agree. The wording in my previous post is ambiguous. I finished the N5 grammar on Bunpro around level 5 on WaniKani, so I also started studying grammar earlier, and I think that’s perfectly fine.

That’s how it goes with learning languages! You get that same sort of feeling when revisiting a language, too. This is my nth (n \gg 1) time trying to learn Japanese and it gets easier every time; I can’t even imagine needing to learn things like hiragana and cardinal numbers again. They just click now.


This is a telltale sign that you’re not ready for the graded readers yet. That’s fine and completely normal. You don’t want to spend too much time with material that you can’t understand; it is demoralizing and can make you feel inadequate if you’re not understanding everything or if you’re taking too much time to make progress.

I’ve had this same sort of feeling in other parts of my life, so I’ve learned to recognize it. I’ve found myself in math classes where I just didn’t understand what was being said and felt that sense of dread, for example. Nowadays, I know when I’m starting to feel that way and when it’s time to back up and start with something a little closer to my current level. When it comes to Japanese, that means material made for students with a background in another language instead of Japanese-only content.

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I can definitely relate to that lol, everyone says me to be careful when trying to go full speed on WaniKani, and I always say that I will slow down if it becomes too much, but I hope that this won’t happen!

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