Tobira study group - chapter 10

This is the thread for chapter 10 of Tobira. Our home thread for this study group is here .

As usual we’ll spend 2 weeks going through chapter 10. After the 2 weeks, we’ll take a 2 weeks break before starting the last 5 chapters. I think many of us need some time to catch up!

Here is the link to the Tobira web site where you can find recordings of the main text and dialogues in each chapter plus kanji and grammar resources.

Who will study chapter 10 of Tobira the next 2 weeks?

  • I will study chapter 10 now
  • I will study chapter 10 later

0 voters

I was glad the main text was more shorter this time - I seem to had found it more easier to understand compared to the last chapter or at least I knew a lot more of the vocabulary words. :thinking:
Though it seems 会話練習2 モデル会話 website audio - Mike just says “sugoi ne” and that’s it and just missed out the rest of the sentence in the book. :sweat_smile:
I enjoyed the main video, made me miss konbini shops a lot. I went through language partner as well, felt it was a bit odd for someone to study Japanese and live there and not know what an Ekiben was much as he actually went to the station and brought it. :thinking:

I’m going through the 3rd chapter again as well, mainly just underlining what I can’t understand or not confident at and using their anki deck again.

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Could any one provide me English translation of cultural notes of lesson 10. 標準言語と方言 standard languages and dialects .

Is there anything in particular in the passage that you need help with? I don’t think anyone here will be able to break down and translate the different ways of saying うまい mentioned, if that’s what you’re hoping for. As for the rest of it… I might not mind doing a bit of translation practice (I just read the passage today, actually), but I’m a little hesitant about doing the entire passage. Do you have any specific needs/requests?

「ちょうじょう」「だんだん」「おおきに」「わりいっけねえ」というのは、同じ意味を表す方言ですが、どんな意味だと思いますか。実は、これはみんな「ありがとう」という意味なのです。
“Chojo,” “dandan,” “ooki,” and “wariikenee” are dialects that have the same meaning, but what do you think they mean? In fact, this all means “thank you”.
「すごくおいしい」を各地䛾方言で言うと? How do you say “very delicious” in various dialects?
Or
How do you say “very delicious in different places ?

The phrasing is a little awkward, but all the key information is present and correct. Is there anything that you need more specifically? Do you really need the entire text to be translated?

Ah, I see, you want to check your understanding against a translation. Hm…

Literal translation: ‘[What happens/what do you use] when you say ‘amazingly delicious’ in each of the regions’ dialects?’
Natural alternative translation: 'How do you say ‘amazingly delicious’ in the dialect of each region?

if you can translate pleas do i will discuss with others
and post refined translation. I am also doing.
this is my last topic in 10th lesson Next i am going to start Lesson eleven after this.
thank you.

I guess I’ll take this as a challenge and see how quickly I can translate things from Japanese into English, but I’ll just say that I personally don’t like translating texts when I can already understand them because I feel it’s not helpful for me. It’s better to think in the language you’re trying to learn once you’re able to do so and stick with that. That’s what I believe. So I’ll do it this time, but I probably won’t do it for other texts. (PS: if English isn’t your native language and you’re more comfortable with something else, there’s a chance that I speak some of it, so if you need to… I speak, in decreasing order of fluency, English, French, Chinese, Japanese, German, Spanish)

Now then, time for that translation. Start time: 1:58

Chapter 10, 文化ノート (covered by a spoiler tag for the people who are using this thread but who haven’t read the text yet)

“Choujou”, “dandan”, “ookini”, “wariikkenee” are dialect words that express the same meaning, but what do you think that meaning is? In actual fact, these words all mean ‘thank you’.

Saying ‘amazingly delicious’ in the dialect of each region?
[Map]
Try reading each dialect word aloud. It’s interesting, isn’t it? In Japan, there are various dialects from region to region, just like this. The dialects are usually referred to with ‘region name + ben’, as in ‘Tohoku-ben’, ‘Nagoya-ben’, ‘Kyuushuu-ben’, and among them, Kansai-ben has become extremely common thanks to the media, with almost all Japanese people being able to understand it even if they don’t speak it. Everyone [of you] has heard of it somewhere too, right?

As opposed to dialects, the Japanese which newscasters speak, and which is used in things like textbooks and newspapers, is called Standard Japanese, and is a language that all Japanese people study at school. Long ago, Japanese was completely different in each of the regions, and even among Japanese people, smooth communication was impossible. Apparently, because of this, in the Meiji Era, Standard Japanese was created based on the language of Tokyo as a language that anyone would be able to speak and understand. Additionally, the word “namari” – to be distinguished from dialects – also exists. This refers to the unique accent and intonation of a region, and is not a difference in terms of language. Thus, it’s possible for Japanese people to speak Japanese-accented English.

Here’s a joke about dialects:
When a friend went to someone’s home in a certain region, she was told ‘You seem to have certain airs.’ She denied it, saying, ‘That’s not true,’ but she was repeatedly told, ‘You definitely have certain airs.’ Because she was told this no matter how much she denied it, she got quite a shock. However, she later found out that ‘having airs’ meant ‘you seem to be in poor condition and look sick’ and understood that it wasn’t that she was ‘putting on airs’, and she was apparently relieved.

End time: 2:24
Total time taken: 26 minutes

Note: the joke was not translated literally at all, but was instead translated so it might continue to make sense in English. ‘Airs’ was chosen both because it sounds somewhat like えらそう, and because it brings to mind the ‘aura’, which is believed by some people to exist and to indicate someone’s health. I was also perhaps thinking of the concept of 気, which ties into ‘airs’ quite nicely.

EDIT: accents -> dialects in the last paragraph. I must have been sleepy when I typed that line.

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‎これは地方独特アクセントやイントネーションのことで?
I don’t get how 地方どくとく works.
地方is noun 独特 is adjective or noun ?

It refers to “regional uniqueness” of pronunciation and intonation.

Is this okay ?

It’s an adjective. If you look at example sentences for 独特の〜, you’ll notice that it’s quite common to leave out の or any other particle that one might expect to come before 独特, even though it’s not wrong to add の or anything like that:


This is an accurate translation of the meaning, but the grammatical structure of your sentence is different from the original. I wouldn’t say the idea of ‘regionally unique’ is wrong though. It’s very good, and I was considering it as well. The problem is that the phrase ‘regionally unique’ isn’t that natural in English, so I can’t really translate 地方独特 as a sort of ‘compound adjective’ using that.

This^ is how I translated it originally. Another way: ‘This refers to the accent and intonation unique to a region.’ These two translations preserve the original nouns and adjectives. The only thing I couldn’t preserve was のことで, because it makes very little sense in English to say ‘this is the matter of the accent and intonation unique to a region’. That’s why I decided to transform ‘is’ into ‘refers’, since 〜のこと refers to things related to ~ and not just ~ alone.

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