I don’t know to tackle this issue but by presenting it as a funny anecdote
Im only on level 12 and while doing some Wanikani in my down time at my schools, fellow teachers have often walked past my screen and commented that “No one uses that kanji,” or “No one says that…” The most common is “That’s an old reading.”
Two recent examples are たび(旅)ー old word for travel, not really used anymore and かいすいぎょ 海水魚ー apparently no one says this., （edited to fix spelling)
Has anyone else experienced this or have similar anecdotes. And if so…what are we learning?
Bear in mind that the vocab is there to reinforce the kanji, not necessarily to teach you the most native, natural speech. But if they saw you reading Genki I they’d probably make similar comments, I suspect.
I encounter it constantly in fiction at the very least. Most recently while preparing the Final Fantasy club:
旅の者よ、そなたらがクリスタルをたずさえているというのはもことか⋯？
旅立つ、旅人 and similar expressions are also very common in my experience.
That’s not to say that some vocab entries are not niche, but this is a kanji learning website first and foremost, vocab of here to reinforce the kanji. Also 海水魚 is taught with the on reading, かいすいぎょ, and as such should be trivial if you remember the reading on the kanji (and otherwise it’s a good way to review that).
When I first started wanikani back in 2019 or something this was a common theme on the forums. I think the answer is that people are generally not actually very aware of their own language. And the stuff wanikani teaches is also not the same or in the same order that a Japanese kid would learn kanji, so it can seem jarring to a Japanese person.
Genuinely from of the bottom of my heart say this with every little ounce of hate, f*** these people.
Yes, there are kanji here you will not use in your reading or everyday conversation, but Japanese people even have a knowledge of them despite not using them which whether they know it or not helps them navigate the language. In fact, they know you won’t use that kanji because they know of it! The irony is so rich you can never develop an iron deficiency.
Yes words that fall outside of the 2000 most common words don’t get used daily, monthly, or even yearly, but knowing of them is still important. I learned the “every day” version of some words because I knew the kanji.
This particular phrase or line of thinking triggers me to no end.
For 海水魚, yes, it’s true that it’s an uncommon word. I think it’s just that WK usually try to provide at least two vocabulary words per reading, but at level 7 there aren’t that many kanji to choose from, so it’s hard to find common words that use the ぎょ reading of 魚. Also, since you just learned 海 at level 6, they probably decided to go with it. Personally, I would have taught 人魚 instead, but maybe that’s not very common either…
I mean 旅 is a grade 3 kanji, so even the Japanese school system acknowledges that it’s a pretty basic kanji. It’s kind of strange for natives to claim otherwise. There are some weird kanji on WaniKani but it’s not one of them.
@Belthazar please note my-self control as I have not mentioned 漣 yet.
It appears so but I completely understand/agree with you.
Exactly my thought, and to share some experience the other way around:
My mother tongue is French, and lately my Japanese colleague started learning French as I encouraged her since there are a lot of French/Japanese exchanges where I’m at.
I was surprised to see that she learned a lot of exaggerated, old-fashioned ways or unnatural ways of saying things, but it always sparked a conversation!
I am fully able to understand her as a native and it boosts her vocabulary to understand French literature (or fancy grand-parents ahah).
So my take is that it’s always useful in some way!
I think they are aware, but it’s more of an innate awareness. A subconscious one. They use 旅 all the time in regular conversation without thinking about it, but when they do stop to think about it, it suddenly starts to sound weird.
In the language learning world there is no such thing as a “word you will never use”. My wife studies English and while she throws this line at me, I see what she studies and refuse to ever utter those words because I know that there is utility in being aware of them. There is no such thing as wasting your time learning an uncommon word/kanji/grammar point. It is all in service of your language acquisition and your ability to engage with the language. Unless your goal is to indefinitely introduce yourself learn everything you can!
Just from what I’ve heard (not experienced personally), this seems to come up from time to time. When these people say “no one uses that” or “no one says that”, I think they often mean “this isn’t commonly used in everyday conversation”. Like sure, maybe you’re not going to use 旅 very often in conversation, but it is an extremely common word in fiction. I would generally take these kinds of statements with a grain of salt.
Given that Kanji is for reading, I view it as learning something that will be used when reading. So novels, manga, video games, signs, forms. A lot of those will use things that are not used in everyday spoken Japanese.
So just explain that spoken fluency is not the same as full media fluency.
It’s like how most people probably don’t use the English words “unequivocal” or “marquis” in their day to day life, but if you consume enough media you’ll probably see it used by a well-spoken character in a TV show, movie, book, or video game.
Sorry, I had some classes (one week till summer!!!). It is a tricky thing to tackle. I want to know everything but that is often getting in the way of spoken fluency. I am a slow learner so I am always looking for shortcuts and it was just surprising to see that some words being used may not be on the most direct path to fluency.
but I completely understand/agree with you.
