Have you found a Japanese person who doesn’t know the kanji, reading, or vocabulary? Of course not, they know it. They just don’t use it very often.
It’s more likely they’re just making casual conversation, or trying to give you a usage tip and it’s not meant to be actual advice for you to quit or ignore that one. A good friend of mine in Japan watches me practice sometimes and says things like that, but it’s in the spirit of “oh, 里心, haha nobody says that, we say [other examples]” But that’s literally what she means, here are some more words you can learn. Not “don’t learn that one”.
I actually learned this not from WK, but by looking up a song “旅の途中” that I liked a lot from anime “Spice and Wolf”. Than I encountered both 旅 and 途中 here on WK.
I met a new friend on my flight back to Jakarta, Indonesia, because I was busy doing my WK review (offline, using Smouldering Durtles) and she was itching to give me the answers every time I was taking my time trying to remember what the correct answers should be.
Turns out she is also an Indonesian like me, working in Singapore, but unlike me, her work extensively used Japanese, in speaking, writing, communication and all, thus her Japanese is very good.
Anyway, she always gives me good advices on what words are not really common or alternative words to use, and so on, Just like described above, she never said not to use certain words plus she always encourages me to learn more and explore more and I would understand and realize why she advised those.
All these answers are really eye opening. The 旅 did seem lose and the nice teacher who said that might have just been trying to force me to focus on 旅行. But my vice principal was dead set on 海水魚 being weird lol
It probably is weird sounding, i imagine it’s similar to American saying “brilliant.” Like everyone else is saying though, doesn’t make it weird enough to not learn. A good chunk of wanikani vocab isn’t every-day practical…. But just at level 18 I can already read some unknown words based on instinct given by wanikani! I try not to use the vocab here unless I have it confirmed elsewhere, so WK has kinda become my context knowledge. I think I read somewhere that the goal here is to teach native(ish) instincts… There’s ALWAYS a word you won’t know, in English and especially Japanese, so having the ability to break a word down or even guess the reading to look it up without having to draw it is super important.
But honestly, I’m not a JP expat, I’m just doing this as a hobby so I can afford the long route. I know Bunpro has a lot of the JLPT vocab words categorised and everything if you’re looking for a list to learn from!
Cause as I have been told this evening 旅 is used for a journey or a long trip. Like a final fantasy-esqe or Pokémon-esqe journey. Which is why it is rarely used on a daily basis . Which is fine and am happy to learn it but Wanikani should have that context in a blurb instead of whatever strange thing they write to help remember it (I never read them)
I don’t completely agree with that, especially early on. Your study time and number of things you can learn on any given day is limited, it makes sense to focus on the most useful vocab/kanji first and not “waste time” learning niche stuff that has a high chance of having no short term benefits. When you start consuming native content that you enjoy things become different: you may want to learn niche vocab if it’s relevant to your interests in a specific context.
But at any rate in the case of 海水魚 I don’t really have an objection: yes, it’s a pretty uncommon word, but it’s also “free” to learn if you know the kanji. It’s basically pure kanji practice. The word may not be common, but you do need to know the individual onyomi of 海, 水 and (to a somewhat lesser extent) 魚.
But Wanikani even fails at this. I taught the words Unnecessary and Invention this week in class. 不要＆発明. And I was surprised to learn I could read these kanji but was not taught these words. Maybe they come later but these are level 10 kanji and maybe should have been included in lessons.
I know that they cant teach every word but still. I was very surprised this week.
Please correct your teachers and tell them that nobody says 発明, 発見 is much more common (and on WaniKani). I’m not being serious of course, but it shows you how arbitrary that stuff can be.
Regarding 不要, WaniKani teaches you 不 and 要 in isolation with a bunch of associated vocab, don’t you find that 不要 is trivial to understand and memorize when you have good familiarity with the kanji? Because that’s the real objective of drilling all those kanji. “Not” + “need” → “not needed”, so unnecessary.
Maybe, but frankly I wouldn’t worry about that for the time being. These nuances will become easier to integrate when you read/listen to real Japanese and you see what words are used in what context. 旅、旅行、出張… you’ll figure all of that out in due time.
That’s why I understand where the natives are coming from, but it’s also not necessarily super helpful. We don’t approach Japanese exactly like they do, we don’t use the language exactly like they do, we don’t learn the language exactly like they did.
A good example of that I think is this video:
I like this guy’s videos a lot, I recommend his channel. But I feel like in this situation he shows that a native speaker such as himself is somewhat unable to understand how many of us gaijins perceive and approach the language. “You don’t have to learn kanji, just memorize vocabulary” makes complete sense for a native I think, because that’s how they learned their own language: by speaking first, then by learning to read. Kanji came later.
But if you’re a foreigner that may not be how you approach the language. It’s certainly not what I did.
たび2【旅】
traveling; 《foreign》 travel; a journey; 〔観光・視察の旅〕 a tour; 〔短い旅〕 a trip; 〔小旅行・周遊旅行〕 an excursion; 〔徒歩旅行〕 a 「hike ［tramp］. ［⇒りょこう］
～する travel; make a journey; go on a 「journey ［trip］; make a 「tour ［trip］; trek.
日帰りの旅
a day trip
3 日間［数日］の旅
a 「three ［few］ days’ 「journey ［trip］
列車の旅
a 「train ［railroad］ journey; traveling ［a journey］ by 「rail ［train］
船の旅
a boat trip; a voyage; a journey by ship
陸上の旅
a journey by land; an overland trip
空の旅
a plane trip; a trip ［traveling］ by 「air ［plane］
退屈な空の旅
a 「monotonous ［tedious］ plane trip
世界一周の旅
a 「trip ［travel］ around the world; a round-the-world trip
帰らぬ（死出の）旅
a journey to the next world
あてどない旅
aimless travel（ing）
名作の舞台を訪ねる旅
a trip to the setting for a famous literary work.
旅から旅へと渡り歩く
be always on the move
旅から旅への渡り鳥の生活をする
live on the move, like a migratory bird.
昔なら何日もかかるところに今ならわずか数時間の空の旅で行ける.
You now can travel by air in a few hours to places that would take several days in olden times.
旅に出る［発つ］
start （out） ［set out, go, embark］ on a 「journey ［trip］
旅に出ている
be away on a 「journey ［trip］; 〔巡業などで〕 be on the road
休暇を利用して旅に出る
go 「away ［on a trip］ during a 「vacation ［holiday］
帰らぬ旅に出る
go on a journey of no return; go to the next world
放浪［漂泊］の旅に出る
set out on a 「vagabond life ［life of wandering］
旅に疲れた人
a 「weary ［wayworn］ traveler; a person who is 「wayworn ［weary from traveling］.
旅の人
a traveler ［＝たびびと］
旅のセールスマン
an itinerant ［a traveling］ salesman
旅の道連れ
a traveling companion; a person who travels with one
旅の道連れにはもってこいのゲーム
a game that is an ideal traveling companion
旅の疲れを忘れる
forget the fatigue of travel
旅の恥はかき捨て.
You can 「throw away all （your） inhibitions ［《米》《口》 cut loose］ while 「on a trip ［traveling］.
広く旅をする
travel 「widely ［extensively, far and wide］
広く旅をしてきた人
a widely-traveled person
楽な旅をする
travel in comfort
急ぎの旅をする
make a flying visit 《to a place》
旅を楽しむ
enjoy travel
イタリアの旅を満喫する
fully enjoy a trip around Italy
旅を続ける
continue （on） one’s journey
かわいい子には旅をさせよ.
⇒かわいい.
旅は憂（）いものつらいもの.
Traveling is full of melancholy and hardship.
旅は道連れ世は情け.
Companions for travel and kindness in life.
［複合語（見出し語が前）］
旅商い, 旅商人, 旅歩き, 旅疲れ, 旅慣れる, 旅の空, 旅の者, etc.
⇒各見出し語参照.
This was so cathartic to read . This is also a huge pet peeve of mine and my eyes roll when I hear those kinds of comments.
Pretty much anything you learn or study will have varying amounts of use and practically in everyday life, but it’s still part of the learning process. It’s like you’re in math class learning the pythagorean theorem and someone walks by and says, “yeah, you’ll never use that” .
Also, language is constantly changing and evolving. Some words become really popular and some words fade away into obscurity. Some people speak more modern and some people speak more traditionally. You can’t honestly be expected to “keep up with the times” and have a sense and awareness of everything’s popularity and usage as a new learner.
When I hear comments like that, I just immediately assume that the person saying them is ignorant of the second language learning process and is just taking their native fluency for granted and being a bit of a smartass
So I’m completely with you on this! Just focus on your learning and studying and don’t let comments like that discourage you or slow you down!
Fair point, but I think it still stands. Like even if it’s not a common word you can pick up things like readings that may apply to other compound kanji or even learn a word that now is commonly written in hiragana but you know there is a kanji for it. That’s all I’m getting at. There’s all sorts of ways these things can be useful later.
They didn’t look at the word and say, “What does that mean?” Instead, they know the word and simply don’t use it much. The important point is: they knew it.
It’s like every other language. Conversational grammar and vocabulary don’t seem to change much past the age of 12 or so. So “we don’t say” most of the language, at least outside of very specific contexts like jobs and academic discussions. But you still run across a ton of different things in those contexts, and in literature, etc. and need to at least passively know them.
That being said, Wanikani is a kanji learning tool. And they already jumped the shark a bit by adding the kana-only vocab to the system.
I don’t say it in English either. For me, it’s not a particularly useful way of categorising fish. I might use white fish, or flatfish, or shellfish, even oily fish. I’m not even sure how I’d say it naturally in English, probably saltwater fish to contrast with freshwater fish. Maybe sea fish. Never ocean fish. I assume that’s more common in America as it’s bounded by oceans whereas we Brits are bounded by seas. I’d understood it when I read it in WK, though.
Counting 海魚, I learned two separate ways to say it in Japanese in the first 800 words or so. It’s learning to read and who knows what old or regional combination you might come across?
That. Like, “you can’t put saltwater fish and freshwater fish in the same tank”. Can’t really think of any other context where I’d use it. It’s still a word I know, though, and know how to use.
. This is also a huge pet peeve of mine and my eyes roll when I hear those kinds of comments.
.