Do you get the new lesson ordering?


#1

Hey Guys!

I tried to read through the giant thread/debate on ordering and now see we have the option to choose lesson ordering options.
Can someone please explain what the three different options mean?

Thanks!!
-M

P.S. I’ve gotten used to the old, “random” lesson order so now it feels weird to see 20 radicals in a row. So, which way do you guys think is more effective? Thanks again!


New lesson order always kanji first
#2

I can’t really verify it since I’m in an awkward spot right before leveling, but I believe the options are as follows:

  • Ascending level then subject - Prioritizes items by level, then arranges them by type (radical, kanji, vocab). This is the new ordering scheme that should be the default.
  • Shuffled - Lessons are completely randomized based on what you have unlocked. This is the old method.
  • Ascending level then shuffled - Prioritizes items by level, then shuffles. This way old lessons are still cleared first, but you can get a mix radicals/kanji/vocab similar to the old method.

If you don’t want to use userscripts, but want to be able to set a fast leveling pace I would suggest using “Ascending level then subject.” This should let you level in about a week doing 20 or so items a day.

If you don’t care about a steady leveling speed then use “Ascending level then shuffled” to get the benefits of the random ordering without having stuff get left behind by RNG.

I can’t really say there’s a situation where “Shuffled” is ever optimal.

Personally, I still prefer to use userscripts for leveling as I enjoy a specific leveling pattern. All radicals first, then about a 50/50 split of kanji and vocab while there are still kanji available to learn. The built in settings don’t really let you control the proportions easily.


#3

“Shuffled” is the old way - everything in random order.

“Ascending level then subject” is the lessons first ordered by level (i.e. level 7 lessons before level 8 lessons), then by type (radical, kanji, vocab).

… looks like @ccookf beat me to it… lol

Also, if you want to level as fast as possible, I would recommend using a re-order script to just order by type (radicals first, then kanji, then vocab). If you just use the “ascending level then shuffled” option, it actually won’t allow you to level up in sevenish days doing 20 items a day, because you get all the previous levels vocab first, when you really should be doing radicals and kanjis first (kanjis can actually be done within the first few days and still maintain a fast leveling pace).

If you don’t want to go as fast as possible, it’s mostly personal preference… some people don’t like getting all the kanji at once…


#4

@ccookf I’m in the same awkward place as you, so I haven’t really been able to check this…
but I believe that Shuffle would probably be the best setting if you’re using a reorder script (like xMunch’s Ultimate Reorder) the best - since that is the original algorithm with which the scripts were designed.

For example, before we had the third option (ascending then shuffled), I did look at lessons with that script, and it didn’t seem to function properly. However, it was hard to tell 100% for sure, as I only had a few kanji and loads of vocabulary left - including 4 recently added lower-level vocab. It was these 4 new items that really tipped me off to the script not functioning perfectly (as designed) as it couldn’t properly randomize things (I was trying to shuffle before we got shuffle back). The same 3-4 out of 5 things were always showing up, depending on which settings I chose, and I seemed to only be “randomly cycling” between about 10 items rather than the 50 I had.


#5

I’ve left it on “Ascending level then subject” while using the Ultimate Reorder script and haven’t had any issues so far, but I’ve only had vocab items since the change was implemented while I was on a WK break. I should be leveling tomorrow morning so I’ll keep an eye on it and see what happens.

That said, I might switch out his script later. I think @seanblue (sorry in advance if I got the wrong person!) was working on an alternative to control the proportions under the new system. The only other reason I’d have to use the reorder script is 1x1 mode at that point.

Tangent: I actually like that vocab comes in a set order at first. It’s sucks getting similar terms in the same batch, but I accidentally backed out during my lessons today and I basically got to do a second round of quizzes on all of the items I was learning. It was actually pretty helpful for studying xD


#6

i’ve also had it on “ascending level then subject” - and when I use the re-order script, it’d appear to work… the kanji would appear first, as desired. However, if I used the enter key to change to the next screen/tab (radicals/meaning/reading/examples), it’d reset me to another 5 kanji. Ultimately, it ended up being ok, I just had to click the right arrow to go to the next tab instead of hitting the enter button.


#7

You have to do radicals then kanji then vocab (ascending level then subject) if your goal is speed. But getting a ton of kanji in a row isn’t more effective for me as far as actually learning goes, so I went back to Shuffled. I have to learn kanji alongside vocab or it’s just too abstract, too difficult to contextualize.

I do use the reorder script to do all radicals at the start however, as I feel like shuffling them doesn’t add anything for me.


#8

Ascending level then subject is great. I do not reorder. Very happy.


#9

I actually like getting the vocab that’s related in the same session - it helps me to better differentiate the differences (in meaning, especially).

Yeah, that’s the one option I didn’t try at all ~ I’m waiting until I level up to try that option myself, because if I can utilize that with what Sean’s working on, that will probably be the best fit for me.
(I only use the 1x1 on mobile when I’m doing my reviews while in transit on the subway, and my connection is intermittent, so that the reviews don’t time out, and everything counts.)


#10

Still loving the Ascending level then shuffle. It’s perfect for the slow but steady approach that refuses to leave any vocab behind (while still keeping me on my toes by having the levels themselves be shuffled).

It’s definitely not the best style for speed, but I’ve had too many of my attempts to learn Japanese fail because I try to learn too much all at once and get burnt out.

(of course take this with a grain of salt, as I’m only on level 3.)


#11

@ccookf You got the right person. I finally leveled up yesterday and had a good enough mix of items to properly test the script. A want to try one more thing to make it more compatible with Reorder Ultimate and then I’ll spend the next few days testing it more. If all goes well, I’ll post the script this weekend.

I’ve already made a note to tag you and @AnimeCanuck in the post to make sure you don’t miss it. :slight_smile:


#12

No, you’re about right (I reset from lvl 20) - it should work very well for slowish levelling (I do 15 lessons a day). It should mean we won’t get bogged down by the previous level’s vocab when we level up because we will have done a decent amount of it by the time we level. In theory. I’ll have to keep an eye out on the infamous level 5 to see if that really works like I think it will.


#13

Sounds great!

Did you need/want any additional testing, after all?


#14

Seems the new default way be worth exploring before I flat out reject it due to unfamiliarity. It also seems to make logical sense for a 7 day average level up time, because you won’t get dumped with a ton of vocab and instead get to “start over” with the baby steps of radicals that then build to kanji, etc.

I’ll try it for this level and see how it feels before making a concrete decision.

Thank you guys for the detailed info!!


#15

Not before I post it publicly, but I’d definitely appreciate if you go out of your way to try to break it and look for bugs.


#16

Sure thing, el capitan! *salutes*


#17

I reset after spending too many months floating at level 5. I decided to give Ascending level then subject a shot!


#18

Finally leveled (apparently can’t track days of the week to save my life) and I didn’t see any issues with the randomized items specifically. However, the tiny item pool is an issue. Since it’s only around 60 items to pick from having it sorted by type made a lot of repeats or similar items show up over multiple shuffles. Once I turned that off everything started feeling more random. So it’s probably just a case of bad luck + sample size.

If I remember correctly Spotify had the same problem as well. They went from purely random “shuffling” to shuffling and again to another not-so-random shuffling algorithm due to the improbable, but possible and somewhat common patterns that would occur due to randomized items.


#19

UPDATE: Just did a new level from scratch and I love the ordered system! Radical, Kanji, Vocab order works well for me because after focusing through straight kanji, vocab feels really easy and I’m flying through them.

Happy Studying みんな!