Can we get the shaky screen thing for rendaku?

I obviously know the reading but when one character is rendaku’d into another its just annoying to ‘fail’ the question for that reason alone.

Example - question is 番組
I type bankumi
shaky screen
“oops thats not quite right, don’t forget the rendaku!”

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I think this is not the same as missing out on typing n twice.

It means, you don’t actually know the word.

While it might seem like rendaku is just a twist of the same reading, it’s actually more like not knowing how to spell a word in any language. Without that spelling, it’s just wrong.

(yeah, I know some words have both rendaku’d and non-rendaku readings, but for the sake of simplicity…)

At the end of the day, you need to internalize specific readings of words. And understand that they are not negotiable - much as it is with any language.

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Yeah but to make it a more universal feature it should be permissive :slight_smile: .

It’s a good idea to shake on missing rendaku!

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You know the reading of the individual characters, but not the word. Going back an SRS stage isn’t a punishment, it’s an opportunity.

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I disagree. When the same item have multiple options, rendaku’d or not, they’re okay on WK for a reason.

But, more than anything, I think it’s strange how scared many users are of somehow being wrong during reviews. I just don’t understand this hunt for perfectionism, that doesn’t serve learning in any way.

Learning starts with acceptance. So, accept that sometimes you type in the wrong answer, because you have yet to master it. Certainly for someone just starting out, that is reasonable to me. Not inventing short-cuts.

Accept that you have yet to memorize how to spell this word. Then do it right next time, is definitely a reasonable conclusion to me. :woman_shrugging: Learning takes effort in the end.

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Okay, I do agree with the general sentiment. I too mark my answers wrong on Anki if I forget rendaku. Instantly aiming for 100% on reviews is definitely not the way to go, because it doesn’t provide the corrective feedback needed to learn.

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If you have tips for how to make the most of Anki, I’d like to heart i (but rather in the POLLs not to disrupt this thread too much). :slight_smile: I tried it, but then never managed to make it really work for me. One of the things, was about items I barely knew and how to handle “knowing it a bit, but not really”.

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For Anki, it depends, but it’s as bad as deciding whether to mark recalling a wrong pitch accent pattern as wrong. My idea is that if it affects listening, or reading various forms, it should be wrong.

But then, maybe sometimes it’s just hard to remember, so do Leech training in WaniKani. Maybe tagging and doing something in Anki.

It’s an argument against gamifying learning, for sure

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Are you saying, it’s bad to add a shake in this instance, because it undercuts the gamification, or something else, or the opposite? :thinking: Tonight, my mind does not wrap itself around this concept.

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Nah the bit about being scared to get things wrong during reviews.

Gamification means getting them level ups matter more than actually learning it.

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In my opinion the way it works now is fine. But, I think it would be good if there was a mnemonic for every single rendaku or ambiguous reading (when a kanji has multiple readings).

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As a fellow level 9er, I also feel like I’ve hit a wall of regular mistakes on where rendaku are used or not, especially with a few of the 組 words that are in this level. 仕組み is another big one for me. Being that I’m a beginner I don’t really know if shaking would help or hinder the learning experience, but I just wanted to commiserate and see if there are any tips for making things easier to remember.

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Have you read the Tofugu article on rendaku? That is a good rundown of the way it works, although as the article says it’s not 100% predictable. Hopefully it’ll let you do better than a pure 50/50 guess, though :slight_smile:

(Also, 20 years into studying Japanese I still fail SRS items for new words I’m learning because I forgot the rendaku/non-rendaku, so it doesn’t ever go away :slight_smile: Generally I find it means I didn’t know the word as a word and was answering by relying on knowing or guessing the kanji readings; so the repetition helps.)

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This is on-topic by the shakiest of threads, but do you have any tips for remembering a word as a word rather than a string of kanji? Even when I’m trying to recall a word for ENG->JP, sometimes I remember the written kanji before remembering the spoken word and then reconstruct the word from the kanji I remember. I want to avoid reinforcing that behaviour, but I’m not sure how best to do so. More listening practise will probably help over time, but words I learn through WaniKani especially seem to ‘stick’ like this for ages no matter what I try.

I don’t have anything specific beyond either (a) keep doing the SRS reps til it sticks or (b) encounter the word more often in the real world and real contexts. I don’t do ENG->JP SRS.

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Listen more, even with EN sub, or EN text with voice acting (VN style). Probably speak more or write more also works.

I actually don’t like repeating SRS, from JP in Kanji form => EN, until the reading sticks; because as you guess, the process doesn’t necessarily work. Nonetheless, I think having mnemonics, and perhaps revising them to be word/meaning-based in the process of repeating SRS, is helpful.

Note that when reading a text-type (prose?) e-book, I sometimes use Google Translate to “guess” the proper reading of a word, but I’ve already understood the word and the sentence long before that.

EN => JP may work to some extent, but probably not that much for recall / production.

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