Suggestion: More fine-grained error/progress reporting

One of my biggest sources of frustration is the “pronunciation hole.” While it is true that when I make an SRS error it is almost always because I forgot the meaning or the pronunciation (not both), it is MOST common to say “そく” instead of “ぞく” or somesuch. The next most common error I notice is to use the wrong reading for one character (in a string of Kanji).

In these instances, I feel like Wanikani is holding me back, instead of helping me learn.

There should be priorities. Meaning should be most important. Roughly correct reading should be second. Finally, rendaku-ish thing should be lowest.

If you think about trying to communicate (in theory the point of learning a language) if you don’t know the meaning of the word that’s far worse than slightly mispronouncing it (as those of us studying languages other than our native one do all the time).

I’m not arguing to be sloppy or lazy in learning, but WaniKani could do more to help me get out of the hole, to wit:

  1. Allow me to measure meaning and reading accuracy separately, so I can understand what the problem is (especially with leeches, as I suspect pretty much all of mine are rendaku leeches).

  2. Consider something between endless errors and the “OOPS” button. I have the script loaded so I can override, but I don’t like to use it. What I need is prompting. I’m not sure exactly what I’m thinking here, but maybe an option where if the only error is a rendaku error you don’t advance but don’t fall back ?? The penalty right now seems to steep, and just makes my review queue and unhappy place.

  3. Separate drills/reviews for JUST pronunciation or JUST readings (i.e., three review buttons - reading, pronunciation, mixed). Perhaps if I knew I was working on pronunciation (and only showed the characters I’m having pronunciation issues with) that would help.

I can’t be alone in this. Given Japanese’s VERY limited phoneme set the problem of homophones is endemic, and Rendaku makes a bad problem even worse. I want to be able to get it all right, but the current style of reviews seems nearly antithetical to that.

Thoughts?

Larry

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I am scratching my head. I can’t tell the difference between reading and pronunciation. They are the same to me.

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Reading as in the meaning. Maybe I should have said meaning and pronunciation to disambiguate.

Getting something wrong is learning too.

p42gl5m8d9n81

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You should have said meaning and reading to be consistent with Wanikani nomenclature.

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I know you’re saying that you’re not trying to be sloppy, but you really do need to get the rendaku right or your reading is wrong. My experience is that it will cause confusion with native speakers as well.

Wanikani helped me figure out rendaku through pure repetition. Once you see enough rendaku words, you will subconsciously understand the patterns. There are also rules out there which explicitly describe the patterns.

If you haven’t already found it, here is a Tofugu article on rendaku.

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Check WK stats for your numbers. The API does allow for analysis on this. :eyes:

I don’t really get it. In this case, you don’t know the word. There is no picking and choosing which reading to use, as there is just one correct answer. Either you know the word, or you don’t.

Use the Self-study Quiz for this. You can do exactly this to your hearts content. As for WK doing this, doesn’t make much sense since reviewing isn’t about putting in study time and cramming - it’s the opposite - how to learn by doing the least effortless thing, answering a simple question and getting it either right or wrong.

If you feel the need to cram items, which is always good, there are multiple ways to do so - outside of the SRS itself.

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…rendaku isn’t “slightly mispronouncing” though. そ and ぞ are different phonemes in Japanese.

It’s like someone in English saying “die” instead of “tie” or “good” instead of “could.” If you know what they’re gonna say ahead of time you could probably puzzle it out, but in an actual conversation … well, could lug!

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I totally understand what you’re saying, in writing like this it sounds like it could work, potentially.

However, because I’m also in the same boat of also not exactly knowing 100% how to read something despite understanding when I’m reading a manga, I can tell you it’s still very harmful to not know how to read it. Sending back to your reviews is frustrating, but you can’t lie to yourself, you need more time with it. The same way you recognize the kanji 一 or 人 in an instant and have the reading for it instantly, you should want to aim for that for everything you’ve learned. If you’re having trouble with rendaku, you can’t just decide to sidestep the issue and expect that you’ll be resolving it later.

You may not like to hear something like this, but it’s as simple as you just have to push through. If you’re wrong, you’re wrong. Make your own mnemonics, use the self study quiz, take note of your leeches, do what you need to, but you just have to “Deal with it”

WaniKani has already expedited the process of learning these kanji by a significant amount, no one said it’s supposed to be your only resource, you need to have some reading practice to fully cement things in your head sometimes.

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Definitely get where you’re coming from here, and my personal pet peeve is when I just straight out typo the pronunciation of a word I 100% know and set it back a level. That can get really depressing and if it happens a couple times in the same session I usually stop and come back and do the reviews at a later time.

That said, a few things that have helped me specifically with memory errors for rendaku or unusual pronunciations (or the endless “is this 人 a にん or じん?”) is to:

  1. use the “extra study” feature or just review manually myself the ones I’m having trouble with (and every month or so checking out wkstats to narrow down which items those are
  2. install the [Userscript] WaniKani Rendaku Information and [Userscript] ConfusionGuesser to get feedback right away during reviews about which I might be confusing and why a word does or doesn’t rendaku

Maybe that could help you as well?

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