Beyond Sleepy’s (pillow fort?) study log

Ah, took it a little slower with よつばと! today and only read :four_leaf_clover::four_leaf_clover: (2) pages. I also watched two Cure Dolly lessons and two episodes of 日常. It’s 23:00 and I have yet to do any studying for my university courses today tho… I’d better get on that now -_-‘

🍀here’s my translation attempt for pages 37-38🍀

——— 37 ———

ちょっとようじをおもいだした

Wait a minute, I just remembered something I need to do

は?

Ha?

あっちに… ばいばい

Over there… bye bye :wave:

えっ、え?どうしたの?

Eh- eeh? What’s wrong?

——— 38 ———

ええっ⁉︎ 全力疾走⁉︎

Eeeh-!? A full-on sprint!?

まちなさーい

Wait up

たすけて‼︎ たすけてー‼︎

Help!! Heeelp!!

——— end ———

This was really comfortable in terms of difficulty😌

4 Likes

You know, I tried 日常 a little while back and ended up dropping off because I was frustrated with my lack of comprehension. School setting or not, that one’s not too easy!

2 Likes

It’s not, but I’ve watched most episodes 3-5 times with English subtitles so I often remember the jokes even when I don’t understand the Japanese. I need that familiarity because at the moment with anime my level of comprehension is basically at most “oh, I know that word/phrase” most of the time for every anime:p

I’m just focusing on hearing familiar words and grammar while my brain adjusts to spoken Japanese, and I trust that in time it will pay off and I’ll be able to learn more effectively from anime.

2 Likes

Oh definitely, that all sounds like a good idea and I think you’re on the right track. I ran through all of Shirokuma Cafe in basically the same “I might recognize a word” mode too and had a good time, haha. I’ve never actually seen 日常 previously so I think its… particular brand of humor is almost another barrier if I’m already sketchy on what exactly is being said, you know? (and let’s be real, in a lot of listening I’m still hardly beyond that level D:)

2 Likes

Definitely, it thrives on “you didn’t see that coming, did you?” which isn’t great when you need all the help you can get from context clues and familiar patterns to try to make sense of what’s said:p

2 Likes

I read six pages of よつばと! today :four_leaf_clover::upside_down_face::four_leaf_clover:

🍀Pages 39-44🍀

——— 39 ———

おや? どうしたの?風香ちゃん

Oh? What’s wrong, Fuuka?

いえ!なんでもっ、なんでもありませんから

No! Nothing- nothing at all

たすけてえー

Heeeeelp

ムオ⁉︎

Mou!?

——— 40 ———

よつば⁉︎

Yotsuba!?

すみません

Excuse me

…なんだ⁉︎

…wtf!?

とまりなさーい!!

Stop!!

——— 41 ———

さっきの子と風香お姉ちゃん⁉︎

The kid from earlier and Fuuka?

恵那!捕まえる

Ena! Catch her

え⁉︎え⁉︎

Eh!? Eh!?

あっ

A-

——— 42 ———

とりゃ‼︎

(An exclamation)

キャッ

Kya-

おおー⁉︎

Oooo!?

まてー

Waaait

——— 43 ———

たすけてー

Heeelp

…なに?

… what?

あ!あさぎ姉ちゃん、その子、ゲット

A! Asagi, that kid, GET (catch her)

はいはーい、おじょうちゃんどうしたのかしら?

Yes-yes, what’s troubling you little miss?

た、たすけて

S- save me

——— 44 ———

わるい人につかまる‼︎

(Maybe:) the bad person is trying to grab me. (In the context of Asagi’s question. On it’s own its “grab a bad person”?)

ええ⁉︎

Eeh!?

よし悪い人はお姉さんがやっつけてあげよう

Alright, I’ll beat up the bad guy

お姉さん強いからね

I’m strong you know

ホントか⁉︎

Really!?

とう

(Exclamation)

いてえ⁉︎

Ouch!?

——— end———

It’s a little late (00:00), but I’m going to watch a couple Cure Dolly videos and some anime before bed

4 Likes

Verbs that end in the ある sound are verbs of “being” (as opposed to “doing”). Thus, (つか)まる is subject “being caught” (rather than “doing catching”).

This one’s covered in Cure Dolly’s lesson 15, so if you’ve watched that one is may sound a little familiar. If you haven’t seen it yet, then you have yet one more video to look forward to =D

As for who’s doing the action, the subject would be marked by が (if it’s stated). Here, the (わる)(ひと) is marked by に, which tells you that that person isn’t the subject doing the action of (つか)まる.

4 Likes

Ah, “I’m being caught (by a bad person)”

Thank you :pray: This makes sense to me now. I just ignored the presence of に, couldn’t tell you why:/

I watched Cure Dolly up to lesson 17 in April 2021 (I think) so I have to rewatch them. Currently I’m up to lesson 7🙃

I’m making a note of this. Super helpful information Christopherさん

2 Likes

For those with MEMRISE accounts as well, there is a Yotsubato deck list with level broken down by each volume, and includes full audio so you can hear how the vocab is pronounced. Found this helpful when getting into the series.
MEMRISE Yotsubato

I also used GENKI and found it helpful to have the mp3 audio files accessible so I could listen during down time. Since they are level appropriate, it should making transitioning into less familiar territory (like anime) easier. Happy studies!

3 Likes

I’ve read three pages today, I feel like I want to do more but the translations are pretty mentally draining for me so I’m holding myself back. I think 2-3 pages are a good pace for where I’m at right now.

🍀よつばと! pages 45-47🍀

——— 45 ———

す… すげえー‼︎つえー‼︎

A … amazing!! Woah :exploding_head:

で なに?この子

So, what’s with the kid?

隣に引っ越してきた子、連れて行くの

(Maybe:) It’s the child of our neighbors who just moved in, I’m bringing her home

あれ?よつば

Huh? Yotsuba

あ!とーちゃんだ‼︎

Ah! It’s dad!

あぁ連れて帰ってくれたんだね

Aaa you brought her back for me

どうもありがとう

Thank you :pray:

いえいえ、私はたいした事はなにも

Don’t mention it, it wasn’t a big deal (for me)

ただいま…

I’m home…

——— 46 ———

あ、うちの姉と妹です

Ah, this is my older and my younger sister

長女のあさぎ

The oldest daughter, Asagi

私が次女の風香

I’m the second daughter, Fuuka

で末っ子の恵那です

And the youngest child, Ena

よろしく…

Pleased to meet you…

——— 47 ———

あ、えーと、引っ越してきた小岩井です、よろしくー

(Something like:) Ah, um, having just moved in, we’re the Koiwais, pleased to meet you

こいつがよつば

This is Yotsuba

よろしくねー、よつばちゃん

Pleased to meet you, Yotsuba

え?

Eh?

このお姉ちょん達はお隣さゃんだ

These young ladies are our neighbors

ちゃんとあいさつしなちい

Greet them properly

おとなりさん?

Neighbors?

そ、うちはそこ、おとなり

That’s right, we live there :point_right:, (so) we’re neighbors

——— end ———

In other news I’ve noticed a small development in my grammar knowledge: I can now read other’s grammar questions and the answers they get and learn from them, which (somewhat understandably) I had difficulty doing before I started applying my grammar knowledge to reading. It all seemed so abstract to me just two weeks ago :stuck_out_tongue:

As for the grammar in Yotsuba&!, I don’t know or look up all of it (I do some guessing based on context, and do skip some syllables from time to time :pensive:), and what I do look up and learn doesn’t necessarily stick. But over time it will :slightly_smiling_face:

4 Likes

Pretty good. There are only really pretty small gaps in your understanding but nothing major!
I especially like your translations. They are so natural in english :smiley: . I always struggle when translating japanese trying not to butcher the sentence in english.

The second one is also an adjective which had a strong sound shift and does sound a little manly how yotsuba uses it. Normally it should have been つよい. Edit: On second thought maybe you already new that and just used a better term for the english translation. Never mind me…

3 Likes

Thank you :pray: I try :upside_down_face:

Hah, I know 強い but I did not know that that’s what Yotsuba said:p “A- amazing!! So strong!!” is how I’d have translated it if I knew. Thanks for explaining this to me :blush:

2 Likes

Great development in grammar understanding! It makes such a difference when the explanations make more sense.

I definitely also live in ‘don’t know/look up every piece of grammar’ when I read - I look up what I need to to make sense of the story, or if I see something a bunch and am curious. It keeps things moving, and things definitely start to stick over time. The more of it that gets familiar, the more inclined I am to look up the last bits that I’m not getting. TBH, if I was trying to look up every syllable and be really confident about every detail of every line, I would probably get discouraged and stop reading - there’s definitely a balance between learning and enjoying the process. Embrace the uncertainty! It’s an important part of learning. :smiley:

5 Likes

A key point here is that there is a clause 「引っ越してきた」 followed immediately by a noun (in this case, a name) 「小岩井」. The clause is modifying the noun.

In English, when a noun has a modifier, the modifier can be before or after a noun. Consider the modifier “big, red” and noun “apple”:

  • “I ate a big, red apple.”
  • “I ate an apple, which was big and red.”

In Japanese, the modifier always comes before the noun, as seen in 「引っ越してきた小岩井」. In English, keeping this clause as a modifier, we might write:

  • “I’m Koiwai, who just moved in.”

Note: It’s possible to state a noun, then state the modifier after it, sort of as an afterthought. But generally, you’ll be seeing the modifier before the word it modifies.

This is one reason I push for people to start reading, even at a fairly early stage. Intensive reading (deciphering) might not work for everyone, but a lot of people make good progress with it, so I figure it’s always worth giving it a try.

I went through the same. A certain amount of input is needed for pattern recognition to start to form. And then when it does, and when it becomes strong (alongside sufficient grammar learning along the way), eventually reach the point where you recognize, grasp, and understand the grammar without even realizing or thinking about it.

4 Likes

I’m absolutely mindful of that balance, the balance I ought to worry about is the one between learning Japanese and studying for my university courses :sweat_smile: (I might be spending too much time on Japanese atm). I’m embracing the uncertainty! Especially when it comes to listening, but with よつばと! I am trying to learn a lot more than is strictly necessary for enjoying the story, and a part of me felt the need to make clear the limits of that ambition to preemptively curb other peoples expectations of my work :stuck_out_tongue: (I don’t think anyone would judge me for not attempting to check everything all the time, but I like to indulge my emotional impulses when writing).

Thank you for your advice :blush: I’ll continue heeding it.

Interesting:) The way I structured the translated sentences was a bit of whimsy on my part, and I take your point, but doesn’t “having just moved in,” function as a modifying clause to “I’m Koiwai” in English the way I wrote it? If we ignore that it seems to imply that being Koiwai can be explained by having just moved in :sweat_smile: It’s a sentence pattern I feel like I see often enough in books when it’s an explanatory clause followed by a simple statement.

Ah, and since he used his last name which presumably applies to Yotsuba as well I figured he might be speaking for both of them…

I’m really grateful that you’ve done so. I bought all volumes of よつばと! last summer based you your advice about reading as possible, although I only got around to it now, and in large part I was inspired by Shenmue😌

3 Likes

I’d say that wording it this way sounds like he’s saying, “I was someone else before, but having just moved in, I have become Koiwai.” (Maybe it’s just me?)

But, I’m not nitpicking here! Rather, I figured if you didn’t know about clauses modifying nouns in Japanese yet, this would be a good time to be exposed to it. And if you were already aware, well, consider it a refresher =D

This is definitely more ambiguous in Japanese than it would be in English.

He introduces Yotsuba by name immediately after, so that’s why I take it as referring to himself alone.

And I’m still waiting for my commission from Azuma-sensei.

4 Likes

Ah, having mainly received advice based on my translation efforts I was primed to interpret it as finding fault with my translation :upside_down_face:

I think I’ve been exposed to the knowledge before, or maybe I’ve just started to intuit it from the context sentences in my Anki deck. Either way it’s good to have the knowledge refreshed (or explicitly stated for the first time?).

Out of curiosity, presumably you can have two clauses that are both modifying a noun, or a clause modifying a clause which then modifies a noun; do you know if this is always clear in Japanese or if ambiguity sometimes occurs?

e.g. The man, who [was seen] [with the telescope]. Was the man seen carrying the telescope, or was the act of seeing done using the telescope?

恥ずかしい… Should I remind him? :confused:

3 Likes

Offhand I can’t think of any instances where I’ve encountered it, but I’m sure if I did see it, that context was able to disambiguate it. Being a learner of the language, I’m probably most likely to see ambiguity as me missing something, rather than the wording being unclear.

This is an extra hurdle for discussion around language interpretation. A translation can be more literal or less literal, and (speaking from my own attempts at translation) this masks the difference between “I understood this, but was loose (or lazy) with the translation” and “I didn’t understand this, and it reflects in the translation.”

Sometimes a response gives you something new, and sometimes it simply tells you what you already know. Either way, we’re all rooting to help one another continue moving forward in learning =D

3 Likes

So today I read the last three pages of よつばと! volume 1 chapter 1

🍀Translation attempt, pages 48-50🍀

——— 48 ———

ちがうよ?よつばのうちはもっともっと、ずーっと遠くにあるんだよ?

That wrong? My home is very very far far away?

あ‼︎ こ、こいつ何にもわかってなかったのか‼︎

A-?? D- didn’t she understand anything at all (of the process of moving)?

…いいかーよく見ろ、これが

Listen- look, this is

今日からよつばが住む新しい家だ!

the new house you will live in from today onwards

——— 49 ———

おおー⁉︎ 今日からここか⁉︎

Ooh!? From today (we’ll live) here!?

で、こっちが私達の家

So, this is our house

おおっ

Ooh :open_mouth:

とーちゃん!おとなりさんだ‼︎

Dad! They’re our neighbors!!

そうだお隣さんだ

That’s right, they’re our neighbors

——— 50 ———

じゃ、よろしくね、よつばちゃん

Well then, pleased to meet you

よろしくね

pleased to meet you

よろしくー

pleased to meet you

よろしくな‼︎

pleased to meet you!!

じゃああのお姉ちゃんはわるい人じゃないの?

So, “big sister” isn’t a bad person after all?

は?

What?

ちがうのよー

No, that’s wrong :sweat_smile:

——— end ———

This tripped me up a few times and I went through three iterations for the translation: “わかってなかったのか”, I’m guessing のか makes it a question? Not sure what の is doing here. Apart from that I’m pretty confident.

I’ve been listening to a Japanese podcast (あらB.fm) a few times a week just to get used to the sounds and rhythms of Japanese, but lately (最近) a qualitative change has come over the way I listen. The language grabs my attention instead of me having to force my attention towards it, words I know now stand out to me, and I think I’m developing an auditory awareness of grammar and the ability to recognize words I don’t know as words I don’t know instead of as a soup of sounds :stuck_out_tongue: It’s like a switch was flicked. Pretty exciting :upside_down_face:

4 Likes

Once again, everything looks pretty good on the translations!

I wonder if this is simply the explanatory の. If so, then rather the question of “Did she not understand anything at all?”, it would be more along the lines of, “Is it that she didn’t understand anything at all?”

The logic here is that it’s taking a sentence (「こいつ何にもわかってなかった」), and turning it into a “It is [noun]” sentence. The の turns the sentence into a the “[noun]” portion of “it is [noun]”. And since it’s a question, in English we’d swap the “it is” around to “is it [noun]?”

Supplemental reading on explanatory の.

3 Likes