霧のむこうのふしぎな町 | Week 8 Discussion 🌬 🏘

[Radish8]

Pages 83 - 96⁺

Chapter 4: バカメとトーマスのいる店

Start Date: 8th February
Last Week: Chapter 3.2
Next Week: Chapter 4.2

霧のむこうのふしぎな町 Home Thread

Last sentence of page 96-97 for eBook readers:
「まあ、こういうふうに歌うんだな。」
といい、あとはだまってしまった。

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Vocabulary List

Mysterious Town Beyond the Mist - Vocab

Please read the editing guidelines in the first sheet before adding any words!

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[Nenad]

Ahhh… feels good. On the downside, I have to fend for myself with the vocab on the upside I can populate it myself and return the favour

Edit: Off-topic, but I’ve recently realized you can read Tower of God in Japanese (1/3 of it, at least). Don’t know where to geek out with people about that on this site

Edit 2: 40% / 4th sentence – “リナ、つぎは六さつばかり海に関した本なんだけど、トーマスにかしてあるの。”

“Rina, next, there’s only six sea-related books left, but Tomas has borrowed some of them”?

Edit 3: 41% – why does “わたしがいくと、かならずけんかになるから、リナのほうがいいと思って。” end with と思って instead of と思う?

Unsure if I should add “ごめんください” – I didn’t know it, but I reckon most everyone does…

[elisac]

As for the sentence at 40%

my understanding is that Thomas has borrowed the six book and not some of them? Or I missed the “some”?

[Nenad]

There is no “some” but I don’t know how else to translate it.

Edit: 42% – わしゃ? The “speaker” meaning doesn’t seem to fit… Nvm, I missed the quote marks, LOL.

[elisac]

…but Thomas has borrowed them.

What do you think? I’m not a native English speaker so I don’t if it sounds right

[Nenad]

That translation makes sense.

Edit: 42% – 海が好きでたまらんのじゃ – “I can’t help liking the sea”, but I’m not sure how I got to that tl – mostly confused about the (の)じゃ

小さいが、がんじょうでよくはしるかわいいやつじゃ。 what are these sentences reeeeeee

43% – あのランプがないことにはどうにもしっくりとせん。???

トーマスがぶら下げているランプを見ると、船長さんはランプにすいよせられるようにかけよった。
This is impossible to translate this into English and keep the passive すいよせられる, right?

[Naphthalene]

じゃ is old man speech for だ.
のじゃ -> んだ.

~でたまらない means “to an unbearable amount” (but it’s positive here, “I love it to bits”)

小さいが、頑丈で良く走る [可愛いやつ] じゃ
Note: you can use やつ for objects as well. I haven’t read yet, so I don’t know the context, but

This little guy is small, but it’s sturdy and sails well.

(Based on your previous sentence, I’m assuming he is talking about a boat)

あのランプがないことには In the circumstance where this lamp is not present
どうにも しっくり と せん (せん is しない) you/I/it can’t do it well.
-> this lamp has to be here for (things) to go properly.

[Nenad]

Thank you. Though I still don’t quite get the uses of で and と in these sentences.

[Tonina]

I don’t get わしゃ。As you said before editing, the speaker meaning doesn’t seem to fit. Do you know what it means now?

[Nenad]

Yes, I think it’s a variant of this:

Which is a variant of the good old watashi.

[Tonina]

Thank you very much! I would have never guessed.

[Nenad]

Though, I’ve googled it now to confirm it, and I’m not sure where I got the idea? Maybe it just made sense in the context, or maybe it’s actually this: https://www.weblio.jp/content/わしゃあ, so like a slur of わたしは…

Edit: 43% – いすの下やらチェスのテーブルの上においてある – don’t get this one, especially the yaru part. What is under, left on top of what? @_@

Edit 2: 六さつもの本をここからさがしだすのは… why さつ and もの?

Edit 3: とうとうリナは、よごれっぱなしの食器も… なし = without?

Edit 4: 44% – だって、さがすだけさがして、このままにして帰ってはいられないわ。-- this whole thing is pain.

Edit 5: とにかく、かたづけないことには、本がどこにあるのかわからないんですもの。-- Anyway, [don’t clean up? cleaning aside?], I don’t know where the books are.

[Naphthalene]

@Nenad

Though I still don’t quite get the uses of で and と in these sentences.

The で in 頑丈で is connective. Sturdy and…

About the と in しっくりと, that’s just a way to connect some adverbs to the verb.

So both are connections

Just saw your edits in the message above:
1 やら is its own thing. It indicates a lack of certainty from the speaker

2 it’s not もの, it’s も (that much) +の (“of” to connect to 本)

3 っぱなし is its own think, meaning “left in a certain state” (state is in front)

4 “but, I can’t just search, leave things like this and go home”

5 well, it’s the same ないことには as in the first explanation I gave in this thread “if I don’t ~” (clean up in this case)

[Nenad]

ah, this thing:

Got it.

[Naphthalene]

Exactly, that!

In the meantime I have also edited my message above with some answers to some of your other questions. Let me know if it’s still unclear, I’m not sure I’m very good at explaining stuff

[2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz]

One question please meow~

At 46%

バカメ is explaining how he got his name and says:
トーマスは、バカメとしかいえねえときてる。とうとうそいつがおれの名まえになっちまった。

I am not sure how to interpret ときてる.
ときてる doesn’t seem to be a thing by itself.
It seemed at first that と is the quotation particle, and that きてる seemed to be 来ている, but doesn’t seem to make much sense (what’s would the quote be exactly? the fact that Tomas only calls him “bakame”? How would that connect with 来ている)
Then I though maybe とき as in 時 but that didn’t seem to go very far either >.<

Any help is appreciated!

[Naphthalene]

Yes, it’s ときている, which means “when it comes to”
Apparently it indeed comes from 来る

日本語を教えてください。「～ときている」 例えば、「安いときている」 の意味と文法用法を教えて下さい。感じは「来る」でしょうか？よろしくお願いします。

So, “when it comes to Thomas, he can only say ‘Bakame’” (notice that it connects to the topic of the sentence, not the thing just in front)

[Nenad]

43% – リナが、ゆかに散らばっていたクッションをかきあつめて、まどでドタバタとふっていたときだ。Swung up at that time…?

Edit: むかいのおしゃべりばばあじゃねえな。-- err, On the other side of chatting, aren’t you an old hag?

Edit 2: 女のくせにそうじのしかたもろくに知らねえらしい。-- ??

Edit 3: 力、ありそうじゃねえか。 – power, right? / Power, isn’t it?

[Naphthalene]

1 It’s the other way around: at the time she was shaking (? not sure that’s the correct verb in English, but that’s what we say in French) the cushions …

2 “You’re not the chatty hag from the other side of the street”

3 “Even though you are a woman, it seems you do not know the proper way to clean. “

4 It’s more strength than power, since bakame is complaining she isn’t wringing the dustclothes hard enough. . I first read that sentence as “doesn’t seem like you have strength”, but now that I look at it again, usually じゃないか is indeed the same as “isn’t it”, so “you seem to have strength, don’t you”.

[Nenad]

1 But it’s 「クッションをきあつめて」not 「クッションをふっていた」i.e. she was collecting cushions, not airing them (or beating, English isn’t my native language either).

Edit: Ah, those pesky connectives and でs. She was collecting them and then (-て form) airing them by (で) the window, right?

2 It’s incredible how a translation can make the original sentence seem clear and simple, makes me wonder how I even had trouble with it at all…

3 I thought that was it, but wasn’t sure. Though I’m still not sure if I’m parsing it correctly, so let’s go over that: 女の.くせに.そうじのしかた.もろくに知らねえ.らしい。
I wonder if the の is part of 女の人 or possessive or something. “And yet”. “How to clean” (literally: そうじ.の.しかた – “Cleaning’s way”). 脆もろい as in brittle??. “Don’t know”. “-seem to”.

4 I didn’t figure out at first that it’s ある+そう。I got it now. Thanks.