Sup, just got 大声 in my lessons and I listened to both Kyoko and Kenichi’s voices, but is it me or Kenichi’s saying おおもえ ?
It sounds to me more like the regular 鼻濁音 - the nasal g sound that can be found in Japanese, especially in some dialects.
For anyone else who wants to have a listen
Kenichi-san does this a lot, also in 鏡 (mirror, かがみ, which sounds like かんがみ from Kenichi)
Compare it with the female voice.
I think Omun is right, just a pronunciation quirk, not wrong.
I’ve even heard the female voice do this for one word.
I was actually going to make a post about this, but I’m hearing something else. I’ve noticed these ghostly ‘n’ sounds in words when Kenichi pronounces some words. I have been Googling it any way I can think of putting it, but getting no results.
For example, I hear this as: おおんごえ.
Is this also related to 鼻濁音, or is this something else entirely?
Maybe I’m imagining things??
Did you read my comment?
It’s a pronunciation quirk that happens less or more depending on the speaker.
It’s like english speakers saying “nut” instead of “not” for “not” sometimes depending on accent (i hope you know what i mean). it’s just a common pronunciation, as far as i can tell.
Sorry, I only spotted that now. I was just wondering is, is this ‘n’ sound related to the nasal ‘g’ since in my example it seemed liked I heard it before the ‘g’ in ごえ・声.
It does seem like an accent thing though, you’re right. Just curious to know more about it! Struck me that maybe it was a masculine thing? From my very basic experience of Japanese I did notice it seems you can easily make your Japanese sound more distinctly masculine or feminine based on word choice and such.
yeah, i think the “ng” is sort of a nasal g.
I’ve heard the female voice doing it once, but definitely less than the male one (Kenichi).
May be a masculine/feminine thing, or a dialect/accent thing.
(even though both voices on WK are labeled as Tokyo Accent, it’s pretty clear to me they speak quite differently sometimes, and of course male/female also often plays a role)
Ah, ok! Hmm.
Just to be clear, when I say I had questions about this, my question was not “is WaniKani or this native Japanese speaker wrong”, just curiosity. Especially since what I’m reading/hearing sound so different sometimes.
I’m very interested in dialects in other languages but can’t quite recognize them in Japanese yet.
Edit: found some more info on this.
This is a feature of Standard Japanese, in addition to other variations of Japanese, just to be clear. For instance, if you wanted to be an NHK news announcer you’d need to pronounce the nasal G’s and the non-nasal G’s correctly. In real life, most people speak some kind of local dialect and not just Standard Japanese, but just wanted to make the point that this isn’t particularly unusual or anything.
I was quite surprised when I was first going through NHK World’s Easy Japanese, and they introduced the nasal ‘g’ in one of the early episodes.
I asked my Japanese teacher about it (a native speaker, although I’m not sure from which part of the country), and at first she seemed confounded by it, but then she also said it was probably a Tokyo thing, and would make you sound like an NHK presenter.
I then asked a guy at a language cafe about the difference, and his response was somewhere along the lines of: “So … do you think of those as different sounds?”
Not that he couldn’t hear the difference, but he didn’t seem to think of it as a very meaningful one (which I suppose is pretty much the definition of an allophone). I guess it’s like the difference between somebody who trills their r:s in English compared to somebody who doesn’t; you can hear the difference, but it doesn’t change the meaning of the word, and neither is incorrect.
The post I linked to on Stack Exchange is interesting, as it suggests:
“An overall increase in the use of word-internal [g] in the vernacular is observed over several decades. The change is near completion, and the word-internal [ŋ] has been replaced by [g] at a very rapid rate within three generations.”
The map posted by that particular user also shows a greater prevalence of [g] the further South you get…
There’s even a band of areas where both appear to be used interchangeably between the green and pink predominant areas.
This Japanese poster indicated they can’t hear the difference, but I suppose nor can I in English really. I actually had to look up what allophones are.
I wasn’t really making a comment on whether you’ll hear it in conversations or whether you should use it. You can hear it every day on TV, so it’s not particularly unusual to hear, that’s all.
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