レンタルおにいちゃん - Week 11 Discussion (Absolute Beginners Book Club)

レンタルおにいちゃん Week Eleven: Pages 133-147

Start Date: 17th October

Last Week: Week 10
Next Week: Week 12
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Vocabulary List

Created by @ChristopherFritz. Please read the editing guidelines in the first sheet before adding any words!

*Created by @nfive. Contains list of grammar points for the week with links to Bunpro explanations.


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6 Likes

Before this book club began, I had recommended some minor changes to the pages per week (which were implemented). My main concern was to ensure there were no cases where one week was extra light and another week extra heavy on reading. In some case, where a page could go just as easily at the end of one week or the start of another, I leaned toward which made for a better cliffhanger between weeks.

This final chapter was difficult to separate! I really wanted us to end this first week on page 145 (two pages earlier), but then next week would just have too many pages heavy with dialogue. I’d also considered instead adding more one page to this week, but that would have made this week a bit too dialogue heavy.

Both weeks are still a wee bit heavy on dialogue, so hopefully everyone’s able to push through it. As always, ask any questions you have. I really enjoy this chapter, and I hope everyone else will too.

7 Likes

I actually felt pretty good about this chapter, but I did want to post my breakdown of one long sentence, to see if anyone had any input.

Page 141

あいつはお前が思ってるような奴じゃないってことだよ。

あいつ = [that guy

は = topic marker

お前 = you

が = subject marker

思ってる = is thinking

ような = like

奴 = that guy

じゃない = isn’t

って = quote

こと = turns verb into noun; (I sometimes think of this as “situation,” like, “that whole [everything that came before] situation”)

だ = it is

よ = you know

[About that guy, [like the guy you’re thinking] isn’t] it is, you know.

The fact is, he’s not what you think.

2 Likes

Page 141

Your breakdown looks good. I agree with the conclusion English translation.

You’ve provided the pieces, but didn’t mention how they connect together, so here’s a bit of that for anyone who may be struggling on how the pieces puzzle together:

Piecing it all together.

Screenshot_20201016_141136

Ultimately, it’s best to be able to understand a sentence from beginning to end (because that’s how sentences flow when spoken). However, I’m going to jump around a bit here.

This sentence ends with a noun + だ. This means it’s a “noun[A] is noun[B]” sentence, like saying “a kitten is a cat”. If context allows, the first noun (marked by が) can be left out: “it’s a cat.”

This type of sentence gets used for things like providing information or stating a fact. The よ at the end adds emphasis to the statement.

Kanami’s brother is essentially saying “It is こと.” The noun こと typically refers to something intangible or abstract, such as a fact, an event, or a situation. In order to know what こと refers to, we modify it with a clause.

Modifiers appear before the word they modify. Here, こと is modified by the clause:

「あいつはお前が思ってるような奴じゃないって」

The って marks it as an quote (an indirect one). I’ll get back to that.

Let’s look at the clause in the indirect quote:

「あいつはお前が思ってるような奴じゃない」

We have a clear topic here, so we can separate this into the topic/comment model:

Topic: あいつ

Comment: お前が思ってるような奴じゃない

The topic is あいつ (“he; that guy(Rental Big Brother)”). The comment is what’s being said about Rental Big Brother.

「お前が思ってるような」

The subject is お前 (a very impersonal way for him to refer to his sister). Because が is attached to this noun, it marks Kanami as the subject.

Because this portion ends in a verb, we know this portion has Kanami performing an action. The action is the verb 思ってる, “(to be) thinking”. “You are thinking.”

The ような gives a sense of “like” or “similar to”. “Like you are thinking.”

This portion modified the word 奴 (a derogatory way to refer to a person):

“A guy like you are thinking.”

Then, it becomes negative with じゃない:

“Not a guy like you are thinking.”

Since the topic is about あいつ, we can add that into the sentence:

“That guy’s not the (type of) guy like you are thinking (he is).”

Putting the 「ってことだよ」 back onto there, we have:

“It is as I say, that the guy isn’t like you think he is.”

I wrote “say” for って, but it can be translated without this word as there is no 言う in his line.

I’m still a learner myself, so I may have some (hopefully only minor) errors along the way.

13 Likes

I am a bit confused about the sentence (and context) of page 147

おじさん今君くらいの年の子にお勧めの教材を紹介しててね

my translation

おじさん (I guess he is talking about himself in third person)
今 now
君くらいの年の子 children around your age
に for
お勧めの教材 recommended teaching materials
を紹介しててね am presenting

-> Now I am presenting recommended teaching materials for children around your age

I thought he might be a salesperson of some kind but what kind of person keeps on talking if the parents aren’t there and has his goods in an envelope? I don’t understand who this guy is (-_-;)・・・

5 Likes

Your perception is correct. It’ll become a little more clear on the first page of next week. (It was difficult to split this chapter here without making either week uneven on volume of dialogue.) Essentially (as per what he says here on page 147), he is a saleman peddling study materials for kids about Kanami’s age. The package I assume is either a sample of the material, or the whole material, to show the parents what he’s selling. As for talking when the parents aren’t there, I can’t speak for this guy, but if you can get the child interested in the material, they can help convince the parents to buy.

2 Likes

He seemed really pushy and kinda creepy to me.

2 Likes

Great sentence breakup! I always have trouble giving a role to こと and って when translating in cases like this. For instance, there’s no particle attached to こと, is it colloquially dropped? If that’s the case, would it be が?

1 Like

There are three types of sentence, and each has a different “final word” type (not counting particles at the end, or inverted sentences):

Verb sentences end with a verb.

Adjective sentences end with an adjective.

Noun sentences end with a noun followed by だ.

The final word never takes a case particle, although a final noun often has だ added to it. (Case particles include が, へ, に, で, を.)

This sentence is a noun sentence. As such, it ends with the noun こと followed by だ.

Since this is an “noun[A] is noun[B]” sentence, こと fills in as the latter noun: “noun[A] is こと”. The meaning of こと is conveyed by everything before it which acts as a modifier.

So, if this sentence is “noun[A] is こと”, what is “noun[A]”? Imagine if someone asks you what type of animal your pet is. You can answer:

  • “My pet (noun A) is a cat (noun B).”
  • “It (noun A) is a cat (noun B).”

In the second example, since it’s known from context you are talking about your pet, “my pet” is replaced by the pronoun “it”. Whereas in English we replace the noun with a pronoun, Japanese simply drops the noun:

  • “Is a cat (noun B).”

That’s what’s happening with this こと sentence. It translates as:

“It is こと”. What’s is こと? We know from context.

From the modifier on こと, we know こと represents the situation Kanami’s brother previously said. From context, he’s now talking about the current situation, saying “this situation is the situation I said it would be”. Or, with a pronoun (dropped in Japanese): “it’s the situation I said it would be.”

3 Likes

Makes lots of sense, thanks for taking the time to explain that!

Week 12 week thread is up!

1 Like

Page 146

(いそが)しいところすみまぜん

Is this an expression of some sort that jew flew over my head?

In my first attempt at this I translated into: Sorry, this place is busy., but, coupled with the fact that the balloons don’t point to who is talking, it did not make much sense to me.

When I put it into DeepL it promptly gave me Sorry to bother you., which now makes complete sense, but I could not get that from the sentence alone, only from the context and with a lot of help.


I really enjoyed the tension and anticipation this chapter is building up until now.

The most difficult part for me was that I felt the panels too disconnected from one another (or at least this is how I felt when reading for the first time, because looking back at it now it’s obvious that it follows quite nicely), so I got lost in context a lot more than usual. Maybe I’ll try to do a quick read before diving deep into the sentences one by one the next time. Ah, and of course, the 2 or 3 long sentences gave me a lot of trouble too but I was able to power through with the help of this thread, so thank you as always :bowing_man: :smile:

3 Likes

I felt exactly the same!

I too have some questions after going through the reading twice:

Page 134

泥棒の叶実ちゃんに悪口言ってあげてたの

I think my problems here are not so much with the grammar as with the context. I understand it´s Sae-Chan talking here because of the reaction of her friend laughing afterwards, but the meaning still isn´t working nicely for me. I recognize the てあげる form in the past (てあげてた), which should have the nuance of “X was being done as a favor”. In this case, it should be “insulting” (悪口言って). And I supposed the に particle acted here as the reference to what was the insult (was being insulted as…) Is the てあげる used here as a way to express Sae-Chan´s sarcasm?

I got:

I´ve been (doing the favor of) calling/insulting you “Thief Kanami”

Page 136

おにいちゃんと出会って一緒にいられる時間幸せ忘れちゃってた

Is that が marking the big relative clause modifying 幸せ? In that case, could we say that in subordinate clauses が acts as a の? (The happiness of… [relative clause])

I assume that で is the て form of the noun 幸せ, but why is it there before the verb? I expected a は or a が.

Pages 144-145

There isn´t a grammatical connection (as a relative clause, for instance) between 期待しちゃってる and 玄関を開けたら right? One sentence ends and another one starts, right?.

Many thanks in advance!! :smile: :pray: It´s weird because even though it has probably been one of the easiest weeks for me in terms of comprehension, a lot of grammar questions have arisen. I always like to know that I got something right not only by chance, but because I perfectly understand the grammar and its nuances!!

4 Likes

page 135
かなみちゃんに悪口言ってあげてたの-

The てあげる-form is confusing me a bit here. Usually it’s used for " to do something for someone / as a favor for"… but that doeasn’t quite fit in this context unless Sae is using it mockingly…?

1 Like

Page 134

「泥棒の叶実ちゃんに悪口言ってあげてたの」

I think に is marking where the bad-mouthing was being directed, essentially the person the bad-mouthing was being done to. Sort of “I was saying bad things to the thief Kanami.”

The の at the end gives the sentence an explanatory feel, so I believe the line is Sae-chan telling her friends what she was doing, sort of saying why she wasn’t already with them to head to the music room.

In this case, I think you want to be a little loose in the meaning of the word. For example, if I wanted to show you something," I’d might say some form of 「()せてあげる」 even though it’s not really any kind of favor.

Page 136

There are a few sentences going on here, joined together by the connective て form:

  1. おにいちゃんと出会った
  2. 一緒にいられる時間が幸せだった
  3. 忘れちゃってた

Note that I made them all past tense because the final verb is in its completed action form (忘れちゃってた).

Let’s look at the second portion:

「一緒にいられる時間が幸せだった」

The noun 時間 refers to time. But Kanami is not referring to just any time. She’s referring to a specific time. This specification is done by modifying 時間, by placing a modifier in front of it. She’s talking about the time 「一緒にいられる」, the time during which she received being together with (her rental big brother).

Let’s remove that modifier from time, to get a clearer picture of this sentence:

「時間が幸せだった」

Now we’re down to the most basic of noun-type sentences. The particle が marks the subject noun. The coupler だ marks what the subject “is”. (Or “was”, as we’re using the past-tense だった here.)

“Noun[1] was noun[2].”

“Time was happiness.”

Not just any time, however. Specifically, the time specified by the modifier.

“The time I received being together (with おにいちゃん) was happiness.”

In English, we typically don’t say “received” in this way. Rather than an active sentence, such as “I received a scolding from the teacher”, we typically use a passive sentence, such as “I was scolded by the teacher.”

Looking at the Japanese grammar, it’s better to think of this as “Kanami received” (since the structure is different from the English passive), but to make it more clearly readable/understandable in English, it would be written as:

“The time we were together was happiness.”

Technically I’d say it’s the て form of the coupler (copula) だ, which is attached to a noun at the end of an “Noun[1] is noun[2]” sentence. This だ can become で, な, or に depending on usage.

Since the て form is like “and” in English for combining sentences, that’s what’s happening here. 幸せだ ends one sentence, and 忘れちゃってた is another sentence. In all, you have three sentences and’ed together into one:

「おにいちゃんと出会った and 一緒にいられる時間が幸せだった and 忘れちゃってた」

In English (using the passive so it sounds proper in English):

“I met oniichan, and the time we spent together was happiness, and I’d completely forgotten (what it’s like to be lonely).”

Pages 144–145

You are correct. The whole sentence ends on page 144, and a new sentence begins on 145.

Page 146

「お(いそが)しいところすみません」

This is a fairly common set phrase. Even bananas are familiar with it:

If for any reason you do not believe the gospel of fruit, this page on it specifically mentions it being set phrase:

「この言葉はクッション言葉で、何かを頼んだりするときのお決まりの定型句のようになっています。」

Loose translation: “This word is a cushion word, and has become a standard formula when asking for something.”

You can probably put parts of that linked-to page through DeepL if you wanted to read more.

Parsing it out, I believe ところ here refers not to a physical place, but rather abstractly to a situation or time. The kind of situation is clarified by the modifier before it, 忙しい. It’s a “busy place” within a person’s day.

The banana agrees with the translation “Sorry to bother you,” which makes it clear (in context) that the man at the door is the speaker.

Yeah, week 11’s material doesn’t lend itself well to slowly working through it. That’s not an issue for the rest of the chapter, but it never hurts to give a quick read through before more formally looking everything up. I actually like doing it that way sometimes, because if I’m lost on the initial quick read, it’s nice to have everything come together and suddenly make a lot more sense when I go through it more slowly.

4 Likes

Ooh, that is smart!

First you introduce me to an android, now to a banana, I wonder what’s next… :stuck_out_tongue:

Guilty! I read this week’s pages in chunks which were considerably far apart, so that must have made it more difficult to grasp the full context for sure.

2 Likes

Sometimes is can be useful, before reading, to browse the prior few pages. Aside from being reminded of context from the artwork, you may notice some words, or even a whole sentence that you recognize.

You may even notice a word from a prior page that you don’t “know”, but you remember what it means, and seeing it again will give a slight boost to your recognition. (Something like an Apprentice II review in WaniKani.) It probably won’t amount to much, but it’s just a freebie while re-establishing what was going on in the story.

2 Likes

Following up on the phrase 「お(いそが)しいところすみません」, here’s a scene from an anime with a character using it:

「じゃ 仕事(しごと)があるんで失礼(しつれい)します」
“Well, I’ve got work to do, so excuse me.”

「ああ ご馳走様(ちそうさま)でした」
“Ah, thanks for treating me.”

「お(いそが)しいところ すいませんでした」
“Sorry to bother you when you’re busy.”

2 Likes

Wow, many thanks for the detailed breakdown!! It really really helped! :pray: :ok_hand: In fact, thanks to your explanation a different perspective has now come to mind regarding the sentence immediately after 忘れちゃってた

Page 136

前はこんなに苦しかったんだ

Although I too had interpreted that the object of 忘れちゃってた was “being lonely” (based on the context of the 寂しい before), would it be grammatical to consider this sentence as what she had forgotten?

Translation: I met Oniichan and the time we were together was happiness and I had forgotten: how hard it was (my situation) before (meeting Oniichan)

Maybe I´m totally wrong but It´s just more like a possibility that came to mind. In fact since the verb should always be at the end it probably doesn´t sound natural, but I also thought it could be kind of like a stop in her thoughts, after which the object (which should have come before) is placed in order to give more emphasis or emotion.

2 Likes