ホリミヤ ・ Horimiya 🎀 👓 (Absolute Beginner Book Club)

I was just about to suggest this. I asked recently, and レンタルおにいちゃん was recommended to me as another easy pick. I was able to read the first chapter quite quickly with no problem.

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The ABBC pick that I found really shocking was Cells at Work! :joy: It’s rated 28 on Natively and I know for a fact that it’s full of a wide variety of scientific vocabulary that you’re unlikely to need unless you’re planning to … practice medicine in Japan? So at least this is not that! :stuck_out_tongue:

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Looking through the archives, Hunter x Hunter was also an insane pick. I have to say, people were still finding trouble with Ruri Dragon (myself included), so I think part of it is that anything that is targeted at natural readers and uses slang etc is just going to be hard full stop.

That said, I think the pacing is still pretty generous, even for beginners…

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I recommend focusing on individual scenes, such as for chapter 1:

Scene Pages
Hori in class 3 pages
Hori cleaning/picking up her bother 2 pages
Miya bringing Hori’s brother home 5 pages
Hori at school the next day 5 pages
Miya visiting Hori 4 pages
Back in school 5 pages
…etc…

Skim through a scene covered in a prior week.

Do you understand what is happening based on your previous reading and from reading the discussion thread?

What issues do you find hinder your understanding?

Are there too many vocabulary lookups?

Is there too much unknown grammar?

Do you find dialogue where you know the vocabulary and recognize the grammar but can’t discern meaning from it?

By routinely identifying the material you struggle with and tackling it (with help from the discussion threads as needed), you’ll start growing your ability to recognize more complex dialogue. It takes time, though.


If all else fails, it’s okay to set this one aside and (and already mentioned) pick up a prior ABBC pick.

レンタルおにいちゃん was my best recommendation for first-time readers before finding Ookami-chan. It’s not something I’d recommend outside of the WaniKani book club discussion threads, but it’s a fairly grounded story that has a smooth difficulty progression.

からかい上手の高木さん has the advantages of 1) short chapters, 2) a recurring story pattern, and 3) extremely minimal story progression (the chapters are not even in chronological order). It’s easy enough to get through a chapter (short), but you can also skip over more complicated chapters without missing anything (with the intent to go back to them when you’re further along).

それでも歩は寄せてくる has short chapters (typically eight pages long). There’s a recurring story pattern. But unlike 高木(たかぎ), the story does progress over time, so you don’t really want to skip difficult chapters.

あしたは土曜日 is another I’d recommend, as it has very short chapters (five pages long), and it’s fine to skip any that are too difficult.


It’s really difficult to find material that meets the following two criteria:

  • Easy enough for a first-time reader.
  • Engaging.

Something like Ookami-chan likely wouldn’t be engaging for more seasoned readers. But when first starting to read, simply being able to understand material can make it more interesting than it would otherwise be.

Then there’s the blind spot that a more seasoned reader can have. When I nominated Mitsuboshi Colors for ABBC, I didn’t anticipate how much of a struggle it would be for some readers. (Granted, I did spend time deciding if it was better suited for ABBC or BBC before nominating it.)

It also depends on the people reading along from one book club pick to the next. You could probably have the same book club read at the same pace on three different Japanese-learning forums and have very different experiences on each forum.


There’s probably still a lot of room for improvement in the nomination and polling processes.

One recent change added a nomination poll option to exclude more experienced readers from the rating. (And in the BBC, there’s consideration to remove user ratings and stick with Natively scores.)

However, it’ll take time to see what impact that has on selections.

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The grammar is the aspect most troubling. I know the individual words, but piecing it together, often with omitted grammar, feels like I am just guessing. I never have to guess in my other manga (オオカミ, Pokémon, 星守犬, Your Name, Ao Haru Ride, etc). Maybe the writing in this one is just less… complete? Maybe because the scenes are more generalized with people just standing/sitting around?

I actually own and read a few pages of からかい上手の高木さん a few weeks ago. It felt a bit above my level at the time, but I should try it again. I’m just trying to finish a volume of something before starting yet another manga!

You are absolutely correct that simply understanding a foreign language makes otherwise mundane reading much more interesting. I would never read オオカミ in English; I’d be bored to tears.

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Takagi-san should be doable if you’ve made any progress in Ao Haru Ride and are even a bit comfortable with it.

This is generally difficult due to a lack of familiarity with the grammar, particles, and expressions.

Unfortunately, the best way to become familiar with them is to keep reading so you encounter them, even if it means struggling through material that isn’t afraid to use very casual dialogue.

But each time you become familiar with something new, you’ll likely start seeing it repeatedly and become more used to it. (It just takes time.)

Then you move on to a different manga, and it feels like you don't know anything.

image

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Again, sounding it out loud is very useful! You pick up a surprising amount of familiarity with casual language from anime even if you’re watching with subs, so speaking it out loud and hearing what the dialogue actually sounds like can help you figure out what other situations you might have heard someone use ていうか or whatever in.

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So, I’m not actually trying to understand the manga. For me, if I was actually spending the time to try to figure it out, then it would be this huge thing where I’d need to make space on my desk to write, and I would struggle with “which of this is the end of a word and which is grammar”… so instead I just try to recognize words, and ‘guess’ what it could perhaps mean, without spending more time than it takes me to sound out the characters.

I check to see if I got the right idea, or if I was way off, by reading other peoples’ questions and translations in the weekly threads. Sometimes I absolutely nailed it, and other times I was completely wrong. Regardless, it’s still practice seeing and reading Japanese scripts. One of my main goals is to increase how quickly I can ‘read’, regardless of if I can comprehend it or not. Like, if I was learning spanish or german or french… or any language that uses the roman alphabet, I would have a step up because I can already “read” the written language, without having to try to sound out each word individually.

With Japanese, I’m trying to move to where I can say “Oh, that says words here” even if I can’t then say “and it means…”

I think what I’m trying to get to, with a bunch of waffling, is that it’s okay to not understand anything, as long as you’re getting some benefit out of it. Just exposure to the language is a benefit. Seeing vocab and kanji ‘in the wild’ and being able to go “Oh! I know that!” is some of the strongest stuff for learning. I’ve had it happen a number of times where I encounter a new kanji, but it’s a vocab word I know really well (like tamago) and I go “wait, THAT’s the kanji for that word? HUH!” - and now I’m more likely to know that kanji in future, even if I have no idea why eggs are being talked about, or what is being said about eggs in the first place.

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To me, this stage before reading was comfortable felt like stirring a pot. Put in a few targeted resources and stir. When it’s mixed up, take another look and choose some different one and see how you do. Some things are boring and get burned on the bottom, let them go. Other things are too hard and don’t mix in, set them aside for later.

I attempted 3 ABBC’s before sticking with it live. Other things I stirred in that gradually helped:

  • genki on my own and some online grammar courses
  • conversation practice with a friend I made online
  • ASK graded readers
  • Satori
  • reading a previous ABBC book slower (the biographies one goes at 1 page per day, so you can follow along really easily)
  • exploring other media now and then: NHK news easy, youtube, etc

Not all of that at once, just make sure you’re doing one thing to keep grammar kicking forward, one easy reading activity, and one more challenging reading activity. Just keep going and be flexible to do what works best for you, that’s the only trick, really.

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I believe you are on to something here. I was enjoying bouncing from book to book, reading maybe two pages from each at a time. When this book club started, I put that all on hold. I should go back to that.

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Same for me. I’m reading various things at the same time:

  • Tadoku graded readers (level 3). These I can read easily while only looking up a couple words.
  • Old book club レンタルお兄ちゃん. It’s getting trickier, but I slowly manage.
  • Current Book club. I’m trying to go in depth, and actively understand each grammar point.
  • Native literature with parallel translations and / or plenty of footnotes. Very hard, but quite rewarding.
  • A collection of random books I found (the illustrated version of Totoro, a couple children books, a collection of 昔話 with parallel translations, etc…)

Each of those source is a different experience, but they all bring something.

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Just to add to all this, this is my first experience reading any native content, outside of the L0 and L1 Tadoku readers.

It is very difficult, but I’m finding it an invaluable experience, as even in just the few pages we’ve read so far, I’ve encountered (and subsequently gone and studied) several new grammar points, and also lots of little bits of casual and connective phrases that I’ve not encountered before.

My mindset is not to go in expecting 100% comprehension, but if every couple of pages I pick up some more common vocabulary and grammar then it’s only going to benefit long term and I consider that a win.

I’m definitely seeing this as a more intensive reading practice, rather than a relaxing thing right now, but it’s pushing me, and I absolutely would have given up on this without this club and everyone being so helpful explaining any questions, no matter how basic.

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Coming from ちいさな森のオオカミちゃん, ホリミヤ is definitely more challenging. I was surprised how much I’m struggling with it. Although I really like the idea of reading an entire story in Japanese, I’m thinking about watching the (English) subbed anime. It’s all in an effort to continue learning, after all.

Although it’s a step up in difficulty, I’m glad I have folks here to discuss everything – the forums continue to provide an incredibly valuable experience. (I’m so late this time around, everyone has already posted all of my questions!) It’s also really great to hear I’m not alone in my reading and learning struggles, so thanks to everyone who shared that as well.

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This is useful as it’s basically a cheat sheet for understanding the context and situations when reading the manga.

This removes some of the mental load required to follow along with the material when reading, allowing you to focus less on “what is being said?” and more on “how does this mean what is being said?”

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I need some “extra scaffolding” – which I might add is nothing to be ashamed of. :slight_smile: Thanks for your comment. My intention is exactly that, to have an idea of what is happening and then help bridge the gap between what I’m reading and what I (will) know.

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On a somewhat related note, how do you feel about having an english translation at hand? Accepting they aren’t perfect of course. I’ve been reading おじさまと猫 on the side, and while I can somewhat get through it without any help at all, reading a page an English after trying to understand it in Japanese adds to my enjoyment. I should note I don’t look up words most of the time, I want to train my reading skill specifically. All in all, do you feel it’s a valid strategy or am I cheating myself?

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I know you replied to ChristopherFritz specifically (I get it, you don’t have to say anything :sob:), but I do sometimes use English translations for making sure if I understood what the heck is happening in more complex scenes (Even did this with anime recently, when I watched with Japanese subs, because Steins;Gate is Steins;Gate). It’s the same as with translations. As long as you put actual effort in, and not just looking at pretty squiggles before actually reading the English translation, it should be beneficial. And if it increases your enjoyment, that’s even better, you can read more then.

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I’m with Gorbit. What could possibly be wrong with confirming your own understanding? Just try and do your translations first then check afterwards.

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Haha. I’ve been reading the English translation of Yuru Camp, and now that I can read Japanese, I’ve realised that some of the translations are just an absolute mess. Like, elementary-level mistakes.

But yeah, occasionally I do catch myself just speed-reading over the Japanese text and going “yep, that’s done, now to confirm it with the English!”, except there’s nothing to confirm because I never stopped to make sure I was actually understanding it. :stuck_out_tongue:

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This is what I did for the first one or two volumes of 「俺物語!!」.

At the time, I was still fairly early on in reading. I had joined some ABBC, and this was probably after my first BBC, as well.

I had seen the anime (with English subtitles), and I’d read several volumes in English already. This meant I already knew the context.

My method here was to read a page in Japanese and, if I was lost, read the same page in English.

I’m sure I read many pages in English along the way.

It’s easy to fall into the trap of reading in Japanese, being lost, reading in English, then saying, “Oh, I see how that’s what the Japanese means” and move on.

But you really want to force yourself to look back at the Japanese and really understand what it means and what led to that specific English translation.

Warning: This can lead to finding mistakes in translation, or errors such as two charaters’ dialogue being swapped in the English release.

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