しろくまカフェ: Week 1 Discussion (Chapters 1 and 2)


#101

Now my possibly silly question…

Bottom right of page 6 (bis/ebook)… Panda uses the verb いらない, referring to sugar going into coffee. My first reading, I figured it was some grammar point around the “to exist” いる that I’d look up later… silly me; that いる is an 一段 verb.

Anyway, 五段 verbs pronounced 「いる」 from my dictionary that seem relevant are 入る “to go in” and 要る “to be wanted.” They both seem like they’d mean basically the same thing in context… is there any further way to be sure which いる was intended here?

I’m pretty sure it’s meant to be 要らない, on the basis that that’s the only one of the two that Jisho labels as “usually kana,” but I don’t know how reliable that criterion is.


#102

要る
いらない is a very common (but impolite!) way to decline something. Do not need.

いる is usually not going to be 入る and 入る is usually not going to be いる, by the way. Most of the time you’d only read 入る as いる in the phrase 気に入る and the like.


#103

Like what we did for なぜ… Type sentence + translation


#104

Thank you for all the help in the vocab file and in here! After years studying mostly formal grammar and speaking this is my first time reading a Japanese book with informal stuff… It’s hard, but I almost finished chapter 1! がんばりましょう!


#105

Yeah i would love to see the translations, sadly I’m not qualified to translate it myself. I think most of us here are on the same boat


#106

Seems to me like discussions over the best way to translate something could easily take over the thread, so I’d be a bit cautious over having a single “official” translation.

What I’d love—but what would probably be far more work—would be a way for people so inclined to post their own personal translations and get feedback. I have no idea what the best way to organize such a thing would be, though.


#107

Whips, cattle prods, and summary executions for noncompliance. :stuck_out_tongue:

(Or, just, be an example. :slightly_smiling_face: )


#108

Question about page 7:
in the last panel, where the panda is speaking, I’m confused about the second part of what he says, "…お砂糖は控えてるんだい。” What is with the だい ending? I think 控えてるん is just the verb in the -te form followed by the shortened form of “iru” and the “n” to indicate an explanation, so what is だい?


#109

I’m not talking about an official translation, but more like:

Page 5:

Blabla bla

bla bla bla in English

And then people replying with, I think this is not right, or this means that…


#110

I believe it’s the equivalent of かい, i.e., a more familiar form of the question particle か. Here I think it marks it as a rhetorical question.


#111

hmmm…I wonder why no one’s jumping up to be an example…
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#112

It’s probably more organized to do the sentences this way. It’s my first book club so I have no idea how to organize this sort of thing😂


#113

Yeah, that’s pretty much the kind of crosstalk I mean—people trying to settle on what the best translation for a line is. There are so many ways to convey nuances of meaning in English that translation shifts into an art form pretty quickly, and I can see that getting a bit distracting for people who are just trying to figure out what a verb form is.

I don’t have time to put together an example right now, but after a bit of thought, my suggestion for a workflow for integrating more complete translations into the thread would be something like:

  • Aspiring translator puts their work into a Google Doc (since we’re already using that for a vocab list) and links it in a post.
  • People who know what they’re doing look over that doc and add annotations (Ctrl+Alt+M) suggesting changes.
  • Return to step 1. Repeat until everyone gets bored.
  • Translations that go through that process a time or two get added to a section in the top post, so others can be used for reference.
  • We start popularizing the term 訳してみた, by analogy to other Vocaloid/ニコニコ terminology.

#114

You believe correctly. :slightly_smiling_face:


#115

My idea is, who ever is first, post the sentence (with or without a translation). And then the sentence get discussed there. It’s kind of how it is right now, but without any order and some sentences are not translated…


#116

So I just read the first two chapters! I struggled with some parts which I’ll discuss below, but they’re mostly from my lack of understanding specific gramar points, so I still managed to understand the story regardless :slight_smile:

Quite proud of myself in that regard. However, the last page, I don’t get where he was bringing these puns from. Was it from the word 友情 so he was using things that ended in しょう/じょう?

Things I didn't really understand gramatically

ヒマだなー
The use of な here.

いると太っちゃう
How this sentence works. I translated it as “I will become fat” but I would not know how to use it as a grammar point xD

行こ
Guessing this is casual volitional? I haven’t really covered this so what’s the nuiance of this verb type?

癒やされるなぁ
This one completely threw me for a loop. I didn’t know if it was negative (it is not healing) or what. I figured out it was something like “it’s so healing” but again, I don’t understand the grammar xD

多いし
The use of し here. At first I thought it was a pun (多いし、美味し) but I’m almost certain I’m wrong.

雑誌にもよく載ってるんだ
All the grammar here confused me. The English version goes for something completely different than I would have thought it would be.

なんていっても
Had to translate this. I got it as ‘no matter what’?

いい味出しるね
He is bringing out the good taste? Again I assume this is pun as he’s bringing food :rofl:

おいしそ
I did not know the use of そ here but it looks simple enough to use :slight_smile:

いらない
I was confused as I thought this meant “there is no sugar” but I’m guessing it means “I don’t need/want”

入れてた
Whilst I understood this, I’d not seeb the てた form used like this. I assume this conjugation means something akin to “you were doing”

なった
Completely missed that this was the verb 成る at first xD

控えてるんだい
The use of だい. I got “I am abstaining”

歩いてきたら
Confused by the grammar here too. Google translated it as “if you walk”

もーん
No idea what purpose this serves if any xD

歩けばそれなりにあるんだよ
:man_shrugging: more grammar here. I get あるんだよ but that’s it here.

ごゆっぬり
Didn’t struggle with this but I loved the pun xD

Ch2

海釣りかい
The use of かい looked it up, it’s my understanding it makes a y/n question? Is it just used the same as か?

じゃない名前があるんどす
Understood it, but struggled with how the grammar fits together. “Not the only names we have?”

ウンー
Used to seeing this as うそ so he’s saying “of course not”?

On the grammar list;

Part of the text outside of the speech bubble in the final frame is actually really important to the resolution to this chapter. Otherwise it just reads as it ends with him super pissed off at shirokuma!


So I think it would be helpful to add this text to the grammar list too because it’s difficult to read :slight_smile:

However I do wonder why this is in the list as I don’t see it! On page 12!

Thanks in advance for any help guys if you’re willing to help me with these points! :smiley: I enjoyed it!


#117

Chapter 1 - page 5

あ-
きょうもヒマだなー
でも寝てばっかりいると太っちゃう~

Ah-
Today I’m free as well-
But if I don’t get up I’ll get fat~


#118

Basically like ね, but more so.

~ちゃう is an abbreviation of ~てしまう, which in this case is adding a sense of regret to the sentence. “I’ll become fat (and that’s a bad thing)”. Please note that the いると is part of the clause above.

It’s 行こ― = 行こう, and yeah, plain-form volitional. “Let’s go”.

It’s passive form. 癒す = it heals (people). 癒される = (people) are healed by it.

It’s an alternative to the て-form.

… There’s an English version? But yeah, I think I might have gone with “That’s because it’s in the magazine too” perhaps?

“That being said” works too.

It’s おいしそー = おいしそう = “looks delicious”. Don’t lose track of those vowel elongation marks.

Yeah, it’s ~ていた. You’ve already seen ~ている abbreviated to ~てる several times this chapter. :slightly_smiling_face:

It’s もん = もの drawn out. “The reason is because…”

歩けば = if I walk
それなり = in itself; as it is

Think the translation is heavily based on what’s going on in the panel - the idea I’m getting is “because I live in this enormous house, just walking here (even though I live next door) is an adventure in and of itself.” Sort of thing.

Yeah, the vocab list seems miss all of the aside comments. If memory serves, someone generated the list off a script, and I guess the aside comments are missing from that script. I added most of them as I saw fit - didn’t really see the need to add the ones from this panel (though I guess キャッチ&リリース could have done with more explanation).

It’s in the “bis” version, not the original.


#119

That’s excellent thank you so much for going through this with me :smiley: once I get home tomorrow from work I’ll look up more detail of each of the grammar points, hopefully that will help me moving forward :slight_smile:

ありがとうございました!


#120

Hi @Joshikii, Regarding the vocabulary list: if something isn’t there, it’s probably because the person missed it or didn’t feel like they would do a good translation.

Oh and here it’s where the 本名 is (or should be) on the very last panel:

As @Belthazar commented, it seems to be missing from the non-Bis version.