Zizka's JLPT 4-3 Studies

[Zizka]

So I figured I would create my own thread as I felt I was hijacking the other JLPT 4 thread and didn’t want to impose.

So I’d like to try something different this time around:

I’m hesitating on this one. I’d like to give someone else the opportunity to solve it. Now, the answer isn’t what I’m interested in so much as the reasoning behind it. If you’d like to solve it, please provide your reasoning, your train of thought, your explanation basically.

Anyone is welcome to give it a shot. You don’t have to be 100% you’re right. I’ll personally study your reasoning behind it.

[trunklayer]

I’d say:

この数学の問題は複雑で難しいのに、すぐ答えられた学生がいたらしい。

Despite this math question being complex and hard, it seems, there were students who could immediately answer it.

As for reasoning, well, let’s see the prefilled part first

この数学の問題は・・・すぐ答えられた学生がいたらしい。

This math question … it seems, there were students who could immediately answer it.

Now let’s see the remaining part. We have the words 複雑 and 難しい、that clearly point at the 問題。So, the problem is complex and hard. Clearly, this contrasts with the fact that there are students who can answer it immediately. So, we look for whether there is something that can express this contrast here – and there is: のに。

So, the sentence becomes

この数学の問題は・・・のに、すぐ答えられた学生がいたらしい。

Although this math question is …, it seems, there were students who could immediately answer it.

Now all that’s left is to correctly arrange 難しい、で and 複雑
We can’t put 難しい first without changing it into 難しくて (and then we wouldn’t need で)
So, 複雑 has to go first, then goes で and then goes 難しい。

At least that’s how I see it

[simias]

The で can only fit after 複雑, which means that のに can only fit after 難しい, so we have to consider 複雑で難しいのに and 難しいのに複雑で as the only two ways to make the sentence grammatical.

Then semantically we can reject 複雑で、すぐ答えられた as being meaningless.

I have never attempted an N4 exam but I feel like those kana spelling would cause me a lot of trouble…

[Zizka]

Welcome trunklayer and simias.

I’d like to add a couple of things to trunklayer’s explanation if only for my own understanding.

So you’d basically put:

①ふくざつ（複雑）④で ③むずかし（難しい）②のに

のに：

I supposed this would be the last one too.

@trunklayer

We can’t put 難しい first without changing it into 難しくて (and then we wouldn’t need で)

That’s fair but which purpose does the で play here? I understand that, through a process of elimination you can guess that’s where it needs to be but grammatically speaking? I mean, like you said the て form of むずかしい should’ve been むずかしくて。

(from the top) It’s not the first one, it’s not the second one (難しい being an adjective), not the third one (is it would be preceded by a noun then)… I’m assuming the third one? -te form of desu? EDIT: Maybe I’ve got it?

When connecting two な-adjectives, the first adjective is changed to its で (de) form by removing the な (na) and adding で (de) to the base of the adjective.

Only here, it’s not two な adjectives.

[trunklayer]

I’d say it’s zeroth one: de <-te>

Which is why, if we want to change the order of 複雑 and 難しい、we would have to change 難しい to 難しくて

[Zizka]

@trunklayer

Which is why, if we want to change the order of 複雑 and 難しい、we would have to change 難しい to 難しくて

Of course! You nailed it on the head, makes total sense now. I didn’t realize you could use で to link な adjectives. Good to know.

Here’s another one, if someone’s interested, which I find a bit tricky:

[trunklayer]

I’d say it’s

A: 「この本で紹介されている場所へ案内してください。」
B: 「ええ。私の車で行きましょう。」

A: “Please guilde me to the place introduced in this book”.
B: “Ok. Let’s go on my car”.

My reasoning goes like this.

First of all, what goes right before してください？ 場所へ or されている would look weird and ungrammatical there, so it has to be either 案内 or 紹介

Also, B’s answer makes it clear that A and B are going to go somewhere related to the A’s question (which in turn is related to the book) on B’s car.

So, it’s safe to say that the sentence is going to be something like

A: 「この本で・・・場所へ・・・してください。」

It’s clear that something is being done to the place by the book, so we can narrow it further to

A: 「この本で・・・されている場所へ・・・してください。」

Now the only loose words left are 紹介 and 案内。If we put 案内 first – it would be

A: 「この本で案内されている場所へ紹介してください。」

A: “Please, introduce me to place guided in this book”.

Which sounds maybe not impossible, but weird.

So, we end up with

A: 「この本で紹介されている場所へ案内してください。」

A: “Please guilde me to the place introduced in this book”.

So, basically, my general method to solving this kind of problems is:

1. Eliminate everything that clearly doesn’t make sense or is ungrammatical.
2. Try to guess the most likely meaning of the whole sentence.
3. Try the remaining combinations and see which of them makes most sense in the context.

[Zizka]

One thing I find difficult at times is figuring out when a clause describes a noun, like:

@trunklayer

【この本で紹介されている】場所へ案内してください。

場所 is described by この本で紹介されている. Do you have any tips that a noun is being described that way or is it more instinctive?

Here 案内する acts like a movement verb.

I was born in a mountain village of Hokkaido.

…the is a river…

①きれいな ②そこ ③には ④つめたくて

The only one of the four I was unfamiliar with つめなくて, the negative て form of 詰める which has 11 different meanings according to Jisho.

きれいな川 would make sense. Or そこきれいな川, that beautiful river.

The issue I’m facing here is that I’m unsure of the meaning of 詰める （to stuff into, to jam, to cram, to pack, to fill, to plug, to stop up).

Since there are no other nouns, I guess all the words describe 川.

そこ・には would work. I thought そこ was followed by a noun but according to Bunpro, it can be followed by a particle.

お前のそこが悪い

So how about:

そこ・には・つめなくて・きれいな「川がありまして…」

I’m unsure, however. Again, 詰める is tripping me up. The river doesn’t jam up?

[pm215]

@Zizka

つめなくて, the negative て form of 詰める

You have misread this, which is leading you astray…

[trunklayer]

@Zizka

場所 is described by この本で紹介されている. Do you have any tips that a noun is being described that way or is it more instinctive?

Well, I personally mostly rely on intuiton, but that’s just my general approach to life. You have a much better logical mind than me.
Overall, however, I’d say that it becomes better to recognize patterns the more you read.

@Zizka

The only one of the four I was unfamiliar with つめなくて, the negative て form of 詰める which has 11 different meanings according to Jisho.

It’s つめたくて (冷たくて)、not 詰めなくて！

P. S. Ninja’d by @pm215

[pm215]

@Zizka

One thing I find difficult at times is figuring out when a clause describes a noun, like:

@trunklayer

【この本で紹介されている】場所へ案内してください。

場所 is described by この本で紹介されている. Do you have any tips that a noun is being described that way or is it more instinctive?

When a clause that would be a valid standalone sentence immediately precedes a noun, it is modifying that noun. There are potential ambiguities with how much of the sentence to put inside complex subclauses – in this case the この本で could in theory attach to the main verb rather than to 紹介されている – and those you have to figure out because e.g. the verb can’t take that particle, or it wouldn’t make sense.

[Zizka]

Gah! Just noticed my mistake! I’ll look into it.

[taiyousea]

@Zizka

I felt I was hijacking the other JLPT 4 thread and didn’t want to impose.

Please always feel free to post lots in the N-level threads! It has been fun looking in on your questions, they make me stop and consider grammar items that I haven’t really thought about in a long while.

I also look forward to your posts here, too ^^

[Zizka]

Thanks, taiyousea, that’s kind of you to say.

So, I misread, I shoud’ve seen: 冷たくて, which is the て form of 冷たい, いい形容詞.

So, as we’ve seen in the other question, if I were to link きれいな with the other descriptor of the river, I’d need で after the な adjective:

which means きれいな must come last. So I’d go with:

②そこ ③には ④つめたくて①きれいな「川がありまして…

@pm215

and those you have to figure out because

Yeah, I was hoping for to figure those out but I’m sure it’ll come with practice.

EDIT:

Here’s another one if someone wants to try:

[DaraM18]

I think:
小さい子どもたちが、公園で遊んでいるのが見えます。
3 → 4 → 2 → 1

I see some small children playing in the park.

I must try more of these: I find them pretty tricky - you’re kinda snookered if you don’t know one or two words because usually they are checking a grammar point that only becomes plausible when you can understand the full thing.

[Zizka]

Good answer but you forgot to share your reasoning/explanation for the answer!

@Zizka

Now, the answer isn’t what I’m interested in so much as the reasoning behind it.

So I can learn from your explanation .

[DaraM18]

You put me on the spot.

a) because it feels right

b) the small children are the subject;

looks like the sentence ends with 見えます;

if so, then が見えます(?);

so far so good? Then 遊んでいるの has to be the rest.

(Even that のが見えます quickly looks like a meaningful structure - not sure if I can correctly call it a ‘clause’).

I guess we’re generally looking for patterns that fit into place - trying to lock in fairly quickly where 1, 2 or more of the pieces should go, and it’s fine to use the process of elimination when we’re down to 2 choices or even 4.

Mathematically there are 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 options and 24 are too many to go through by blind elimination.

[Zizka]

It’s part of the initiation process! Thanks for the explanation.

By the way, any recommendation for a JLPT 3 or 4 level book? I’ve googled for a while but couldn’t find anything definite. Manga is fine too. Anything which can be read really. I like horror and thrillers. I don’t like things with monsters in it though stuff like that.

Here are five more: (please do one at a time)

I’ll try 2:

Because it’s dangerous outside at night, alone (manner) … ですよ。

①ほうが＋③いい＝it’s better to do… ②歩かない: walk, negative ④外を：outside

I’d go for:

④ ② ① ③

Because it’s dangerous at night, it’s better not to walk outside alone.

Some reading (fron NHK news):

アメリカのラスベガスで、AIなどの新しい技術を紹介するイベントが始まりました。

In Las Vegas, USA, an event to introduce new AI technology and the like started.

I mistakenly thought イベント meant ‘inventor’ until I looked it up .

世界から4000以上の会社や団体が集まっています。

More than 4000 companies and groups gathered (there).

No comment except: 団体「だんたい」group, party

今年は、AIを使った人の形のロボットが多くなっています。

This year, there were many human shaped robots using AI.

中国の会社のロボットは、部屋に落ちている服を洗濯機まで運んだり、お茶を入れたりしました。

A robot from a Chinese company dropped closes from a room into a washing machine and carried it as well as served tea.

アメリカの会社のロボットは話す人の顔をよく見ています。そして、その人の気持ちを考えて答えたり案内したりします。

An American robot recognized well people talking. And then, the robot thought about the feelings of those people, answered them and guided them.

[DaraM18]

#1

Today…until are not blossoming (isn’t it so).

Cherry blossoms, April 2nd, The park’s, Even though

My first iteration: x → y → 3 → 1

…公園の桜はまで咲きませんね。

(also already thinking: 今日は4月２日)

Then: 2→4→3→1

今日は4月２日なのに公園の桜はまで咲きませんね。

I think this question was 100% about なのに。

[DaraM18]

アメリカの会社のロボットは話す人の顔をよく見ています。

The robots of the American company look closely at the faces of those who speak.

(not ‘recognized’)