What am I missing?
What am I missing?
Essentially, の is necessary because メール詳細画面で is modifying 履歴件数表示.
Don’t ask me what they mean, though - those compound nouns are hurting my brain.
I understand the sentence but with の being a possessive indicator, it’s giving me an aneurysm because it doesn’t make sense. Without the の it’s crystal clear to me.
What would be the difference in the English translation of these two sentences?
Probably the same as stuff like
先生へのプレゼント : present to the teacher
学校での事故 : incident at school
Just with a crazy compound
It’s not a sentence without the の. You couldn’t end it with だ or something to make it a sentence like that. And the intended meaning is clearly not for it to be an omitted する. So you need to connect it with rules for connecting nouns.
I was told this by a native speaker (that lived outside of Japan most of their life)
Just sounds a bit more formal. It’s a fluff character. Like it’s there to just fluff it up a bit. I don’t think it serves any grammatical function. But I could be wrong. It’s a very subtle nuances
Which sounds quite different from what you’re saying.
I don’t know what you want me to say to that.
It’s not really a sentence either way. It’s valid to not use の, but then you implying an omitted する, not a noun.
You don’t sound convinced. (Honestly, neither am I)
I suppose I need more similar examples.
Okay, the native is right because they are native. You convinced me.
EDIT: Apologies for the tone. I’m in a bad mood. And the idea of just saying “it’s a fluff character with no grammatical role” made me want to just throw my hands up.
It’s a heading in the UI of a particular Japanese software so not a proper sentence really.
And that would be weird to end with an implied verb.
A verb would be expected as the implication on a button or something, not a header.
But we know they didn’t intend for it to be understood as an action because of the の
If we take Arzar33’s second sentence (so we have the same particle combination), we can try to expand the sentence:
学校で事件（がおこった）。The incident happened at school.
学校での事件（についての記事です）。 This is an article about the incident that happened at school.
The first one is just a location marker, the second is a noun phrase modifying the second noun to give more information about it.
If we try to translate the phrases directly (without the verbs):
学校で事件 At school an incident.
学校での事件 The incident at the school.
The second is way more specific.
If we try to complete these two as sentences you would get something like:
But for a header it would make way more sense to just put a noun phrase (top option), than an unfinished verb phrase (like your version).
I asked a person who grew up in Japan and they say that the version with の sounds more natural to them but they don’t know why.
If you’re looking for grammatical explanations as to why something is one way or another, it’s usually more helpful to ask a person who is fluent in the language but had to learn it themselves. Like @Leebo for example
And yes, asking natives is fine when your question is “is this a mistake?” They are supremely good at identifying unnatural Japanese. But usually only teachers will know how to explain why something is one way or the other.
Exactly, it’s often hard for native speakers to just explain why their language works the way it does, since everything is so instinctual to them. If they even ever learned the rules in school, it’s been years since they actually had to think about it, unless they’re a translator or language teacher.
Thanks for the picture ! It’s much clearer now.
The left column are all noun, because it’s the name of each settings. The right column is the content of each settings and here we have complete sentence, ending with verb like …を表示する/…を表示しない
Edit: I think for computer interface, there is a preference to use noun for label and such when possible. For example, in the windows explorer / display settings, the “add column” button is translated “列の追加”
Thanks. Yea I get that. Just the での is throwing me.
Check out this short explanation. It’s only saying what was already said, but there are more examples.