๐Ÿ‘ป Week 6 10ๅˆ†ใงใ‚ˆใ‚ใ‚‹ใ“ใ‚ใ„่ฉฑใƒป10 minute Scary Stories (Absolute Beginner Book Club)

The ใจ connects the clauses and implies a strong causal connection (not sure how to express that any better). Uhh, I found this tofugu article that explains it better than I ever could: Japanese Verb ใจ Form
For the second part Iโ€™m pretty sure they found the doll, not the dress. So that itโ€™s ใชใ‹ใซใฏ [โ€ฆ] ใซใ‚“ใŽใ‚‡ใ†ใŒ ใฏใ„ใฃใฆ ใ„ใŸ ใฎใงใ™ โ†’ โ€œInside was a dollโ€. And ใชใ‚“ใจ ใตใ‚‹ใณใŸ ใ—ใ‚ใ„ ใƒ‰ใƒฌใ‚นใฎ is a description of the doll.

Overall my take would roughly be: โ€œAs we fearfully opened (the box), inside was a somewhat old doll wearing a white dress.โ€ Or something like that (?)

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I think something like:
ใ‚ใจใ‹ใ‚‰ ใใ„ใŸ ใฏใชใ—ใงใฏใ€-> โ€œIn conversations (we/I) heard afterwardsโ€ / (or less literally:) โ€œwe later on heard thatโ€ฆโ€
ใพใˆใซ โ†’ previously / earlier ( as in โ€œbefore we lived hereโ€ )
ใŠใชใ˜ ใƒžใ‚คใจ ใ„ใ† ใชใฎ ใŠใ‚“ใชใฎใ“ โ†’ a girl with the same name Mai (I canโ€™t 100 % break it down, but if I try Iโ€™d go with: โ€œใŠใ‚“ใชใฎใ“โ€ โ†’ girl ;; โ€œใŠใชใ˜ ใชใฎ ใŠใ‚“ใชใฎใ“โ€ โ†’ a girl with the same name ;;; ใŠใชใ˜ ใƒžใ‚คใจ ใ„ใ† ใชใฎ ใŠใ‚“ใชใฎใ“ โ†’ a girl with the same name โ€œMaiโ€ ;; the ใจ ใ„ใ† doesnโ€™t fully translate to English but I believe thatโ€™s roughly it :woman_shrugging:)
ใ“ใ“ใซ ใ™ใ‚“ใง ใ„ใŸ ใใ†ใงใ™ โ†’ apparently lived here (~ใใ† is something like โ€œI heard thatโ€ or โ€œapparentlyโ€)

So my suggestions is:
We later on heard that a girl with the same name โ€œMaiโ€ had apparently lived here before.
(Is that proper English? Well something like that )

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Hello, everyone :waving_hand:

Iโ€™m back from vacation and trying to get back on track with the stories! This one was short and sweet, scary level lower than the others hehehehe :blush:

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Page 52 Sentence 3

ใ‚ใชใŸใŸใกใ€
You + plural ใŸใก= โ€˜you allโ€™

ใชใซใ—ใฆ ใ„ใ‚‹ใฎ

ใชใซ - what

ใ—ใฆ ใ„ใ‚‹

to be doing

ใฎ
Feminine speech question marker

ใ”ใฏใ‚“ใ‚ˆใ€‚

ใ‚ใชใŸใŸใกใ€ใชใซใ—ใฆ ใ„ใ‚‹ใฎ๏ผŸใ”ใฏใ‚“ใ‚ˆใ€‚

(literal) You all, what are you doing? Meal
(natural) What are you all doing? Itโ€™s breakfast time.

Page 52 Sentence 4

ใใ“ใซ ใ“ใˆใ‚’ ใ‹ใ‘ใŸใฎใฏ

ใใ“ใซ is modifying ใ“ใˆใ‚’ใ‹ใ‘ใŸ
โ€˜the voice (over there) that was calling themโ€™

ใฎ is nominalizing ใ“ใˆใ‚’ใ‹ใ‘ใŸ so it can be made the subject of the sentence and marked with ใฏ

So literally itโ€™s saying โ€˜The voice calling them was their motherโ€™

Page 52 Sentence 5

This is another case of Japanese implying a lot without saying it.

ใ—ใ‚ใ„ ใƒ‰ใƒฌใ‚น ใฎ ใญโ€ฆใ€‚

The speaker trails off here but Iโ€™d say that the full phrase is ใ—ใ‚ใ„ใƒ‰ใƒฌใ‚นใฎใซใ‚“ใŽใ‚‡ใ†, a doll wearing a white dress. So,

โ€œMom! Last night, a doll ghost appeared. Wearing a white dressโ€ฆโ€

So, even though she only says โ€˜white dressโ€™ I think the rest of the phrase is implied.

Page 53 Sentence 3

Japanese often uses ใ™ใ‚‹ verbs for expressions and senses. It doesnโ€™t necessarily imply an active effort by the โ€˜doerโ€™ of the verb, and can be used for when things spontaneously occur.

ใฟใ‚‡ใ†ใชใ‹ใŠใ‚’ใ—ใพใ—ใŸ

ใ‹ใŠ can also be translated as โ€˜expressionโ€™

โ€œA strange expression was on her faceโ€ or, even more naturally in English, โ€œA strange expression crossed her faceโ€

Page 53 Sentence 5

Iโ€™d say here ใฎ is being used kind of like ใ“ใจ to refer to an incident/matter

ใใฎใ†
Yesterday
ใ“ใ‚“ใชใฎ
That kind of thing
ใ‚ใฃใŸ
happened

ใ‚ใ‚‰ใ€ใใฎใ† ใ“ใ‚“ใชใฎ ใ‚ใฃใŸใ‹ใ—ใ‚‰โ€ฆโ€ฆ๏ผŸ
Oh, I wonder if the thing that happened yesterday (is connected to this doll)โ€ฆ?

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page 54 sentence 1

Agreed!

Page 54 Sentence 2

This is a fun one for structure since [ ใ‚ใŸใ—ใ‹ใ‚‰ ใใฎใ†ใฎ ใงใใ”ใจใ‚’ ใใ„ใŸ ] is technically all modifying ใŠใ‹ใ‚ใ•ใ‚“

The [heard-yesterdayโ€™s-incident-from-me] mother

Iโ€™d say the ใ‚‚ here is like โ€˜evenโ€™

ใ‚ใŸใ—ใ‹ใ‚‰ ใใฎใ†ใฎ ใงใใ”ใจใ‚’ ใใ„ใŸ ใŠใ‹ใ‚ใ•ใ‚“ใ‚‚ใ€ใ‚„ใฃใจ ใ—ใ‚“ใ˜ใฆ ใใ‚Œใพใ—ใŸใ€‚

Naturally in English I think weโ€™d just structure this differently, โ€˜Even my mother, who heard about yesterdayโ€™s incident from me, finally believed meโ€™

Page 54 Sentence 3

Slight nuance correction: ใ“ใจใซใชใ‚‹ means โ€˜to be decidedโ€™

โ€˜It was decided that the doll would receive a memorial service at the templeโ€™

Page 55 sentence 2

Agreed :+1:

Awesome job everyone!

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Will the Japanese Grammar ever feel normal and understandable without having to think about it?

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Absolutely!!

In my opinion, the stage youโ€™re currently at of encountering native material for the first time is the hardest stage of Japanese learning. When I started reading easy manga for the first time, it felt like it would never get easier, or if it did, it would be years and years before I was able to read anything harder. But I kept at it every day, and almost two years later, I can read adult level novels slowly, and childrenโ€™s novels easily, with only 1-2 unknown words per page. I reached this level much faster than I thought I would!! And all I did in the meantime was continue to read every day and study grammar on the side.

Donโ€™t forget that our brains are wired to learn languages. It may take a lot of conscious effort now, but as long as you keep it up, one day youโ€™ll find that things are much easier! You may notice that a sentence structure that gave you trouble before you can now comprehend at a glance, or you may read a string of kanji and it instantly makes sense. Thatโ€™s because as long as youโ€™re interacting with the language, your brain is doing all kinds of processing and learning subconsciously, in the background.

One thing I recommend is setting yourself benchmarks so you can look back on your progress. Maybe when you finish reading this book, go back to the very first story and try reading a page or two. You may find that itโ€™s much easier to comprehend!

So all that is to say, I know itโ€™s really tough now, but yes it absolutely can and will get easier!

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Did you also do a Lot of vocabulary learning (beside Kanji) or Just Reading/Translating?

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The only SRS/flashcard system Iโ€™ve used is Wanikani. Otherwise, I just look up words as I come across them when reading!

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I confirm that grammar gets a lot easier with time.
The basic patterns pop up ALL THE TIME, so you naturally get a lot of exposure if you keep at it.
I think at first grammar is harder to digest, but eventually youโ€™ll have the basics down. And I feel like the more advanced patterns are actually kind of easier to parse? Like itโ€™s more like learning โ€œoh I see, it is said like thatโ€ฆโ€ eventually, but the structure isnโ€™t that surprising anymore. The start is hard because everything seems jumbled and you struggle to identify whatโ€™s what. But you are doing a great job!

An example of something I at first really had trouble wrapping my head around and that made the start really hard is the pattern @soggyboy explained for page 54 sentence 2, where you have some clause โ€œshoved inโ€ that describes just one noun (or in this case person) more clearly. (Can be a long clause like here or can be much shorter - like sometimes itโ€™s just one word before the noun) At first that just seemed like a mess (why is there a verb here? what does this object even relate to? how does this even all fit together anymore??) so this kinda messed with my head quite a bit. But that pattern is super common, and eventually it just started clicking and that made parsing sentences much easier.

ใŒใ‚“ใฐใฃใฆ๏ผ

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Yes, this one took some getting used to for me as well. Eventually it just โ€˜clickedโ€™ and now I can see it easily!

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