Week 4: フルーツバスケット ・ Fruits Basket 🍏 🍇 🍑 🍒 🍐 🍊 🧺

[NicoleRauch]

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Home Thread: フルーツバスケット ・ Fruits Basket

Week 4

Start Date: July 11th
Previous Part: Week 3
Next Part: Week 5

Reading:

Week	Start Date	Chapter	Pages (old)	Pages (Collector’s)	Page Count
Week 4	July 11th	Chapter 3	83 - 112	85 - 114	30

Vocabulary List

Fruits Basket Vocab

Discussion Rules

• Please use spoiler tags for major events in the current chapter(s) and any content in future chapters.
• When asking for help, please mention the chapter and page number. Also mention what version of the book you are reading.
• Don’t be afraid of asking questions, even if they seem embarrassing at first. All of us are here to learn.
• To you lurkers out there: Join the conversation, it’s fun!

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[Dani_L]

I’m pretty lost by this sentence.

Page 104

そうやって後でショゲるんなら怒鳴んなきゃいいのに悲しい性質だね。

I feel like it’s something like “Doing (shoge?) after things like that will help your sad nature.” But I think I’m missing something.

[NicoleRauch]

I have not yet read that far so I cannot help you with the full understanding, I’m afraid; but maybe these bits and pieces help already:

ショゲる - to be disheartened
怒鳴んなきゃ = 怒鳴らなければ - if you don’t shout

Does that make any sense in context?

[Dani_L]

Okay that helps some, yes! Some of the ways katakana has been used has thrown me. Some of them like ホントに instead of 本当に I can make the connection. I found しょげる on jisho.org but wasn’t sure it was the same thing as ショゲる because of the katakana. So that confirmation helps!

And I was totally thinking the なきゃ in a “have to do” sense instead of conditional so yeah that definitely helps!

[NicoleRauch]

Glad it made some sense at least!

For the katakana, that threw me off as well initially, but it’s quite common to write some words or even parts of words in katakana (I think it’s used for emphasis, for example) so when I saw the hit on Jisho I was pretty convinced.

@Dani_L

And I was totally thinking the なきゃ in a “have to do” sense

It only means “have to do” when it is なきゃならない, and although the ならない is sometimes left out, it is only left out at the end of a sentence (because sentence ends sometimes tend to be left out) but never randomly in the middle, at least in my experience. So if it is just なきゃ in the middle of a sentence, I always expect it to be a conditional.

[Kappa421]

Page 87

そーやって人を手の平の上で転がして楽しいかよ

I checked an English translation and it said “Do you enjoy manipulating people!?”
I found this about it, but not fully grasping this explanation, though. My understanding is that the phrase with 転 means it’s some kind of complete control/manipulation? And with 踊 it means there are people who notice somebody is getting manipulated? Can’t make sense of this.

[NicoleRauch]

@Kappa420

そーやって人を手の平の上で転がして楽しいかよ

OK, let’s see:

そーやって - that way
人を - people
手の平の上で - on the palm of the hand
転がして - to roll s.b./ s.th. around
楽しいかよ - is fun?!

Does this help? (If not, please keep asking)

I think it’s a very vivid expression. When I first read it, I arrived at the meaning you presented, but I was not sure, so thanks for reassuring me

[Kappa421]

Huh, very interesting. I can see how that can mean to manipulate somebody, but I still don’t fully understand the difference to the same phrase but with the other kanji.

I just realized I completely forgot to post the link I was refering to

[NicoleRauch]

@Kappa420

but with the other kanji.

Oh, then I totally misunderstood your question! Which other kanji, by the way?

@Kappa420

I just realized I completely forgot to post the link I was refering to

Oh, now your question makes a lot more sense

Well, it’s not a different kanji but simply two different words:

踊らされている - from おどらす - to manipulate, to let dance
転がされている - from ころがす - to roll

So the way the poster described it, in the “let dance” version the manipulation seems to be less obvious than in the “roll around” version. Does this help somehow?

[Kappa421]

Ah, yeah. Not just kanji but a whole different word is what I meant. I was a bit tired.
All right, so the “dance” version means it’s less obvious. Thanks, I didn’t really understand the explanation in the link.

[NicoleRauch]

@Kappa420

I didn’t really understand the explanation in the link.

I was wondering whether that might be the issue here. So for the first version it says that the person being manipulated does not notice it, but that there is somebody doing the manipulation. And for the second version, that somebody is fully controlling the other person. And that both variants mean the same in the end, but that the difference is kinda how the controlling is performed.
Or at least that’s my understanding

[Kappa421]

Makes sense to me now, thanks. I first thought the first example meant there are other people aware of the person who’s being controlled instead of that there’s somebody doing the manipulation. The other stuff I understood like you did, yay.

[kmurgs]

Phew, just finished! This week wasn’t too difficult, but like @Dani_L I had a bit of confusion around the katakana! For some reason I misread ショゲ as “jog” and couldn’t work out HOW that would fit.

Thanks for asking the tough questions so early in the week!

[Dani_L]

I think I was thinking ショゲ was some kind of game or something lol. I was way off.

Haha yeah I had a bit of extra free time this week and got a bit overzealous in my reading. I’m a little ahead now so I have some questions saved up for the next few weeks. I enjoy reading with everyone though so I may have to find another book to read when I finish each week’s page count.