Here なり is the ます-stem of なる. In sentences it serves about the same purpose as て-form, i.e. connecting two sentence parts with “and” or “and then” (it’s just a tiny bit more formal).
Oh thank you! I was not at all looking at it the right way - I found so many definitions for it.
Could it be that you were thinking of this? なり〜なり
Yes exactly! I was thinking things like “fish, for instance” but couldn’t see it quite worked.
As far as I remember, that なり〜なり always involves 2 possibilities, from which 1 has to be somehow chosen. However, it’s true that the context is fairly broad and can be used for entire sentence clauses as well.
In this case, it’s especially tricky because this construction works with any verb, so it’s really hard to search for, I guess. But it’s super common in books, so you’ll remember it in no time if you read a bit.
Is there another way of saying « I don’t know » in addition to 分かりません? Why are 知りません and 知っていません incorrect?
知りません is a way to say “I don’t know.” It’s a good idea to be careful with it though, because it also gets used to mean something akin to “I don’t care” sometimes.
There’s definitely a distinction though. 分かりません somewhat implies that it’s something you thought about and aren’t able to figure out. 知りません merely means “I don’t have that information / I’ve never heard that information / That is knowledge I don’t possess.” It’s blunter and does not imply any effort on your part to figure anything out.
It’s sometimes the right thing to say, and sometimes it’s safer to avoid it.
Was there a specific situation where you were told 知りません is wrong?
知っていません being something that is almost never said is a little harder to explain.
Thank you for the answer!
Regarding 知りません: I used it when my tutor asked me what is the typical dish of X country, which I had no idea about. She told me that 知りません would mean there’s no thought process going on in my head, like « I’m not thinking ».
Regarding 知っていません: would you be able to provide an insight of why it’s not used, whereas its positive form is?
And regarding 分かりません: how do I make it sound like « I don’t know » and not « I don’t understand »? This sometimes causes confusion when I use it to answer my tutor’s question, as she would think I didn’t understand what the question is.
If you flatly state 分かりません I think it’s clear you’re saying you don’t know the answer to the question. If someone truly didn’t understand what the question even meant, I feel a native would say どういう意味ですか or 意味が分かりません
Is it possible that you’re maybe saying 分かりません with a bit of a raised inflection or with a sense of uncertainty?
To be fair, 分かりません can mean “I don’t understand what you said.” So it’s not easy for sure. I think tutor/student interactions are always going to have these little fits and starts. You can always just say more than the one word to explain.
That would explain it perhaps. If you’re asked a question and you outright say 知りません, it might sound rude as Leebo mentioned. It’s not the English “I don’t know”, it’s more like saying “I wouldn’t know (and don’t care ← depends on how you express it)” and lines up with what your tutor said about “no thought process going on in your head”.
Another way of thinking about it is that 知る distances you from the thing you’re talking about. It’s not just “l don’t know”, but also implies that you shouldn’t be expected to know (because it’s not related to you).
分かる is a lot more personal and implies some level of investment. It’s actually quite interesting how the two are defined in J-Js, if you’re comfortable using them.
If you look at how 知る works, it kinda makes sense.
知る → I know (but more specifically, the act of coming to know something )
知っている → I know (the general state of knowing something)
知らない → i don’t know (the act of coming to know has not happened)
There’s just not really a need for 知っていない in this context
Would saying this even when someone asks you for example 「田中さんを知っていますか？」be wrong? I thought 知ってる and the like was the correct way to answer in this case.
Yeah you wouldn’t use 知ってない.
Hey guys, a suggestion
Yesterday I encountered my first complex sentence in a native context without assistance and I was a bit lost.
I already asked in the Takagi-san book club and they brilliantly solved my problem with a great explanation but I’d also love to hear some suggestions from you guys on how to approach similar situations.
Some context.
Very minor spoiler (if at all) ahead
there is a scene where takagi fools nishikata with the same trick he was about to try fool her, just before he was able to. He gets mad and starts thinking… “しかもオレがやろうとしたことを先に…”
The difficulties I found with this sentence came from wide range of possibilities of interpretation of every word that appear to be to someone inexperienced and that can’t rely on context as me.
しかも = no doubt on this
オレが = easy peasy
やろう = what was this? Searching on the dictionary I found 6 definitions, some of which were looking plausible: seems/ I guess/ bastard/ 遣る / 演る etc…
とした = とす /とする / 賭する?
先に = I know what this meant but assembling all the pieces was another thing
Now, this actually meant ”…Moreover, the thing I was trying to do, (got done) before (me) “ so there was a sentence in a sentence, and the main sentence contained a lot of implicit datas such as the zero-が subject (her, takagi-san) and the verb that she performs (what I translated as ‘got done’) and also the ‘before who’ (me-nishikata).
I’m probably going to encounter many other sentences like this so I wanted to ask you for suggestions, if there are any or I just need to keep pushing and analyzing this way till I don’t begin expecting such things?
Any suggestion appreciated!
やろう from やる to do,
と した was about to
Innit?
Moreover, (she did) the thing I was about to do before (I could do it/me).
Or your interpretation, since I don’t know the context as to how he would say it.
It’s a relatively complex sentence for a beginner, so don’t sweat it too much. You just need to get used to looking grammar up, not everything is a word in the dictionary, and with time you’ll be able to tell how to look it up specifically, and with more time, you won’t even have to.
Explaining how to, you pretty much realize やろう is not bastard from context and from the surrounding words, plus knowing the conjugations and then linking it to とした, which you realize is not 賭す or 賭する since not only are they not exactly common words, but they don’t fit the context, plus they don’t use the kanji, which tbf isn’t always a good indicator but it helps. Stuff like that, you just need to piece it together.
Morpheus is always a motivation booster 
Thanks for the explanation. Maybe in the end it’s as simple as keep studying, reading and searching for points I don’t understand…
Also I guess that a construction with imperative and とした is common and with more experience I’ll just recognize things like these?
Yes, though not imperative but volitional.
Oh right, pardon the confusion
Question
いいかげんにしてよ
said by takagi-san after she teases nishikata and he starts freaking out
The dictionary gives too many possible translations as expressions that I don’t even know in english, and hinative also didn’t help
What is this word’s structure and what does it mean in the context?