Teasing Master Takagi-san 😝 ・ Volume 1, chapter 4

Japanese Language Book Clubs
101

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English uses this negative “Isn’t it?” quite often, also (じゃないか). It’s entirely rhetorical, and despite seeming like it’s asking for confirmation, it kind of implies the person using it is fairly confident in what they are saying.

Literal translation:

“Ehhhhh!? How/why!? More than yesterday, becoming more, isn’t it… How/why!?”

A bit more naturally phrased in English:

“Ehhhh!? How/why!? Hasn’t (the amount of times I was teased) become more than yesterday?.. How/why!?”

もう = already

イヤ = disagreeable, unpleasant

だ = copula

もうイヤだ is literally “This is already unpleasant…”, but often gets translated as “I don’t want to do this anymore” (since the same vibes are there, even if the exact words aren’t)

筋トレなんて = this is the “something such as” なんて, and it’s being used because he is displeased about it, so he uses the なんて to give that diminishing vibe. I’m afraid I don’t know the word dispregiative, but I assume this meaning of なんて is what you are referring to when you say that.

I think the line break matters, so the もうイヤだ stands on its own a bit, and the 筋トレなんて is just a follow up to clarify the subject. “This is already unpleasant/I don’t want to do this anymore. Such a thing as muscle training…”

If it were in “proper” order: 筋トレなんてもうイヤだ…

“Such a thing as muscle training is already unpleasant.” or “I don’t want to do such a thing as muscle training anymore.”

The reason I think the line break matters is that いや is a な adjective, so if it were to modify the 筋トレなんて, it shouldn’t be using the だ copula to do so. Maybe somebody disagrees with me on this. Regardless, the meaning of the sentence doesn’t change.

明日こそは = Tomorrow, with emphasizing こそ + は topic marker

からかわれない = to not be teased

ように = in order to; so that

気をつける = to be careful (る is dropped for purposes of connecting to ねば)

ねば = short for ねばならない. ねば is actually something archaic, and is really only used for purposes of making a joke a bit. It’s overdramatic because it’s old fashioned. なければ would be the modern equivalent. This ね is the realis form of Classical Japanese auxiliary verb ず, and the ば is the same conditional used in modern Japanese. But either way, it has the same meaning of なければ: “must do～”

Translation:

“Tomorrow, in order to (ように) not be teased (からかわれない), I must be careful (気をつけねば).”

I would probably rearrange the phrasing in English to sound more natural:

“I have to be careful so that I don’t get teased tomorrow.”

But leaving it as the slightly wordier/more formal sounding phrasing might be a better way to get the joke across about the overdramatic usage of ねば. :laughing:

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102

Damn!! This is a blunder of mine, I well know this english form but couldn’t see it in the japanese sentence :man_facepalming: It’s so obvious now!

Is this a frequent expression in Japanese? Otherwise I don’t see how I could’ve made sense of it… clear now!

Oh sorry, I used the italian word without realizing but indeed is as you guessed

Clear :ok_hand:

ow I get it! I was trying to translate the ねば too literally into an ‘if’ conditional, that’s what tricked me… so, I didn’t knew this form was used in such instances

Thanks for the help as always!

103

are you feeling teased by the author yet hehehe and congrats on going so fast!!!

104

It’s pretty common, yes. いやだ on its own is especially common (often heard when a character is whining a bit). You’ll get familiar with it fairly quickly as you expose yourself to more materials.

No worries! Thankfully, Italian and English share some roots, especially as it comes to prefixes and the like, so it was fairly easy to guess. I actually thought at first it was just an English grammar term I didn’t know (which is likely, once you get to higher level terms. While I definitely learned it in school, it isn’t something I use regularly, so a lot of that’s been forgotten. :laughing:)

105

Thanks! I’m motivated to reach you guys :grin::raised_hands:

Happy to hear that, also I guess that it’s difficult to overlap it with the いや well/no because this second is always alone at the beginning of the sentence…

This is true, in fact many times when I’m looking for a word in english I just ‘guess’ it, and digit it to see if the typos auto correct marks it as wrong, now I don’t know about english but in italian it’s a ‘common’ word, at least in a grammar context

106

Not especially difficult, thankfully; the いや that means “well; no” won’t take the だ copula, since it’s a filler word. This いや (which also has the kanji 嫌) will either be a な adjective, or it will take the copula.

Oh wait, I misunderstood, I think. By “difficult to overlap with”, you probably meant like “easy to differentiate.” (Not correcting your English, which is perfectly correct, just rephrasing to make sure I understood because I misread.) My bad!

107

Yes indeed :grin: Sorry for the confusion, I recognize that my english is a mess and should express more clearly… But you got my point regardless, as usual :joy:

108

Haha, no, your English was perfectly normal! It was my mistake, entirely.

I was just multitasking (trying to read キッチン at my tutor’s recommendation), and I didn’t look as closely at the post as I should have before typing up my response and going back to what I was doing. :laughing: Doesn’t help this book feels a bit more difficult, so my head is spinning a bit. :rofl:

109

What is it? I googled キッチン本 and came out a novel :joy: by the way, your level has improved, hasn’t it?

Also - quick translation attempt of last panel of page 11

Page 11, panel 4

成長期に筋トレしすぎると身長止まっちゃうって言われてるの。
成長期に → “during the growth period” (marked by に as a target period of time, if this is possible?)
筋トレしすぎると → If overdo muscle training (I’d say that と is the conditional, but could the ‘and’ function here work? As in “Do this, and that will happen”)
身長 → stature (implicit を I’d say)
止まっちゃう → to stop accidentally
って言われてるの → is that I got told (about this part, when I find these progressive-present tense verbs that in english get translated into non progressive-past I always wonder if I’m missing something or it’s just the way Japanese works… yet, on a logical plane, I yet can’t make sense of the progressive present of this. Is she getting told? Or what?)

Full literal translation:
“It’s that I got told that, if, during the growth period, you overtrain, your stature will accidentally stop (growing)”

That’s it, I’m quite sleepy atm and can’t proceed with translating anything else.
みんなおやすみなさい！

110
キッチン

It is a novel, yes. Hahah. From what I’ve read so far, it’s really interesting. It’s kind of a window into the life of a young Japanese woman who has just lost her grandmother (who was her only remaining family, as her parents died young, and her grandfather passed while she was in middle school), so it deals with themes of grief and love. It’s also probably well above my level right now, but I wouldn’t be me if I didn’t tackle things which were probably too difficult for me. :laughing:

My tutor mentioned it as one of her favorite books, and when I read a quick summary, I decided I was interested in it, and figured that even if it was a little more difficult than anything I’ve read so far, the fact that my tutor knows it so well means that I can ask her when I struggle! :grin:

As far as my level improving, if you mean my WK level, I hit level 60 (currently the final level) back in February, so it’s not changed since then. :grin:

Pg. 11

と is definitely conditional. The と as a connecting particle “and” only works with nouns and pronouns. You don’t use it for connecting verbs, so I wouldn’t really view it as the connecting particle in that sense. Though seeing the similarity of the phrases “do this and this will happen” and “if this, then this” could mean that is why the same particle is used in Japanese. I hadn’t thought about it that way before, to be honest. Kind of interesting food for thought, anyhow!

I think as opposed to “accidentally,” I’d look to the “action done in a way that is irreversible” meaning that I talked about in my long ramble about てしまう in the first chapter. I mean, like I said in that ramble, the “accidentally” and “irreversibly” meanings line up together, but it’s like the whole “against the will of the subject (accidentally), and in such a way that it is irreversible”. I just don’t like the phrasing of “accidentally,” though, so maybe you understand that perfectly fine, and I’m just being nitpicky. :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s the state of being again. “In the state of having been told.” It’s just awkward to phrase it that way in English, so “I have been told that” would be more no natural.

Either way, you pretty much got the spirit of the sentence with your translation, so well done!

おやすみ～

Side-note: I was scolded before I could post for it being a dialogue between just us two in the past 8 replies. :laughing: @ChristopherFritz, has it scolded you for that before? :rofl: (Also, it said 8 replies, but by my count, @shuly posted in between, so what gives!? :laughing:)

111

It’s like that saying about the nail that sticks up gets hammered down :wink:

It’s the joy of being at the top!

image

112

as far as I know it’s carry over from (long before my time on wk) when you could send messages directly…since that’s gone though the system still likes to be annoying…don’t let the crabigator tell you what to … 抗戦する！！！

113

Sounds like a good interesting read, I’d like to read something like that eventually (not my favorite genre but I’m interested to that point of view of life in Japan, I think it would be interesting)

For how you talk about it I guess it’s not that sweet +1 difficulty level :joy:

I was actually referring to your linguistic competencies, I’m not sure I talked with you about this honestly but I remember someone telling me that reading novels in this level was a current goal!

About your corrections on page 11 - everything noted :pray: that nuance of ちゃう was kind of what I met - I haven’t forgot our last talk :grin: any correction is always appreciated :raised_hands:

About the state of being, I guess I just have to get used to these things because it keeps surprising me to hear things such as “in the state of having been told” :joy::crossed_fingers:

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**Page 12**
Panel 2

そういえば…どこかでそんなコトを聞いた覚えが
What confuses me slightly here is the subject at the end, it’s not something I see frequently and don’t know what part of the sentence is modifying 覚え, but I’ll take it as if the whole sentence from そんなコト is modifying that word
Anyway
どこかで → if this is easy as it looks, it’s just “somewhere” marked by the で location particle
そんなコト → a thing like that (/such a thing)
聞いた → heard
覚えが → memory (subject)
“Come to thing of it… the memory of having heard a thing like that, somewhere
Note: now that I think of it, how can 覚え be the subject? Wouldn’t this imply that it’s 覚え that makes the action of having heard??

Edit to the note: on an intuition level, the only way I can explain such a thing as 覚え taking が is that it’s putting the 覚え word and everything that modifies it as subject for another point that either comes in the next speech bubble or it’s dropped (classical half sentences from Nishikata)

Panel 3

This was quite complex and still haven’t figured everything out but I almost immediately grasped it’s meaning
それはマズイ…高木さんの方が身長が高くなってしまったら、今まで以上にからかわれてしまうじゃないか。

それはマズイ → that (would be) problematic/bad

高木さんの方が → Takagi-san ’s side (I won’t translate this into english because apparently it’s just a confrontation grammar point and it’s just referring to her part in contrast to his’)

身長が → stature (double subject… never encountered it, have to make some research, how does it work here :question:)

高くなってしまったら → 高い→高くなる→高くなってしまう + たら conditional ; so, something like “if she becomes taller than me” (not sure on the nuance given by しまう here but I guess it means ‘irreparably, completely, to my bad’ or something like this, but I wouldn’t say ‘by accident’

今まで → till now (is this modified by what comes next?)

以上に → beyond/more than (adverbialに)

からかわれてしまう → we know what that means :joy:

じゃないか → isn’t it? Rhetoric question, same as what we discussed yesterday

Result:
“That (would be) bad… Takagi-san, (her) stature, if it (her) becomes irreparably taller (than me), I bet (rearranged from じゃないか) I’ll be (irreparably??) teased more than (what I’ve been up) till now (今まで)

**Page 13**
Panel 1

今からやめても遅いか…！？
Only doubt, what is the やめても, why the て form and why the も, what does it mean?

まぁアレってまったくのデマらしいけどね
まぁ → well
アレ → that
って → という, not sure, but the other chance is that it’s a topic marker, and it would be weird since は and って for topic marking are used in a contrastive way and this was already the topic (am I right?)
まったくのデマ → a completely false rumor
らしい → seems
けど → simple conjunction ‘but’ that should normally be at the end of her previous sentence (it was probably put here at the end because between this sentence and her last one, there are Nishikata thoughts)

“But, well, it seems that (アレ) is a completely false rumor

Panel 3

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Posting the photos because I’m late for a commitment, hope it’s ok for once since I avoided posting pics of the manga in the last week :ok_hand:
Quick literal translation attempt
Rather (むしろ), as for an adequate amount of muscular training, the growth hormones (成長ホレチン) turns active (活発になる), I think (とか)
About とか I know it doesn’t really means ‘I think’ but I translated it that way because on bunpro there is a grammar point that explains that this particles mix (と+か) is used to cite something uncertain.
Only thing I don’t get here is what is that で. Actually I think that it’s just だ connective form, but I didn’t think it was possible after a verb. Perhaps the とか particles make it possible

Second part:
…, the stature becomes more likely to grow (slightly rearranged from 身長伸びやすくなった), among other things (very freely rearranged from the grammar point 〜たりする that is used to list an incomplete list of things. It should work as や but with the difference that this works with verbs too)

Third part: ムシしないでよ
What is that で? It can’t be the connective version of だ because it can’t go after verbs… right?

115
More キッチン talk

It feels quite similar to when I first started reading with Takagi-san, honestly, except that manga feels easier to me than books. :laughing:

I feel like I’m understanding what is happening the entire time as I read キッチン, but there are definitely certainly literary things that I know are going past me – certain metaphors, or certain choices of kanji for some words, and the like. But as long as I can understand the events that are happening, I figure I’ll start to get used to the more literary aspects. :sweat_smile:

Ah, okay! We had talked briefly about some novels that I was aiming for (because they were shared interests when you listed them in the ABBC thread), but it was a couple of specific light novels. Konosuba and Oregairu are both ones that I’d love to be able to read, but they just feel too hard right now. I’ve been reading 夜カフェ and Oreshuba as far as light novels go, where the latter is maybe a bit too hard sometimes because of some weird stylistic choices by the author, but 夜カフェ is actually quite enjoyable and fairly easy for the most part. I’m not sure if I’d describe it as my level having gone up, so much as I’m just pigheaded when I want to read something, and if I have resources to make that reachable, I’ll do it no matter how difficult it is for me to start. :laughing: It’s worked out so far, though, so I’ll keep going at it!

Pg. 12

As you have intuited, 覚え is being modified by everything before it: “A memory of having heard that somewhere…”

It is an unfinished sentence. If I were to finish, maybe I’d put in an ある.

そういえば… どこかでそんなコトを聞いた覚えがある

Literally:

“Come to think of it, somewhere, having heard a thing like that memory exists.”

Natural word order:

“Come to think of it, a memory of having heard a thing like that exists.”

How we would actually say it in English:

“Come to think of it, I remember hearing something like that…”

Either way, you definitely intuited out everything correctly, so well done! :grin:

Here is a really good article on it. I don’t even dare try to summarize it in full because it’s a bit difficult for me to fully grasp. I basically just accept it as happening for now, personally. :laughing:

But in this case, I think the idea of “possessives” is what’s happening here. The very first example he gives in the opening of that article is:

像が鼻が長い

“Elephants have large noses.”

Which is fairly similar in construct to

高木さんの方が身長が…

The nuance of it being unfortunate for the speaker (so, “irreversibly, and against my desires”) is what’s important here. By using the てしまう, it’s very clear that Nishikata views this action happening as unfavorable.

You have the right meaning, so again, well done! :grin:

Pg. 13

て-form + も is a common grammar construct. The て is to connect the verb to the も particle. When used this way, it means, “even if～”

So in this case: “Even if I stop (the 筋トレ) from now on, is it too late…!?”

Here’s a little more info on the って topic marker. While it can be used in places similar to は, it’s also got its own uses as well. “Echoic topic” is the section that I feel applies here, where it’s kinda quoting an existing topic.

けど can be used at the end of sentences as well, though. (Much like I just used “though” to end that sentence, actually… :laughing:)

Sometimes it can be literal, which I think it is in this case:

“Well, it seems that is a completely false rumour (despite your red underlines, this spelling is perfectly valid in all countries but one, autocorrect), though.”

Other times, it’s literally just to soften a sentence, which we do in English as well.

“Ah, I don’t like it much, but…”

There’s no real implied sentence afterwards. It’s just there to soften the impact of the preceding statement. けど can be used this way also (as can the conjunctive が).

Usually you wouldn’t use it after a verb, since the て form is what would be used as a conjunctive, but in this case, as it follows that particle, you are right, and it’s the conjunctive copula, I think.

Either way, I think you’ve got the right interpretation of that sentence.

ないで is the negative request form.

ムシしないでよ!!

“Don’t ignore me!!”

He says this because he asked her a question, but she just kept going on as if he hadn’t spoken.

116

I’m currently watching the anime Konosuba, is it the novel you’re referring to?

It’s the best strategy :joy: I think that eventually we get used to the higher level of difficulty…
I was also wondering, after how long of reading takagi-san did you notice it was begun an easy read?

About page 12, all noted! I’m going to read the article on the double が asap

Oh ok, it was this simple then

Oh damn, I don’t know how I missed it… since it
a request form I suppose there is an implicit ください after it…?

Thanks for the corrections!

117

Yep, that’s the one!

Yep, that’s my thoughts. If there’s something that makes a higher level reading attainable, then I’m happy to take it because it helps to jumpstart learning, imo!

As far as when Takagi-san became an easy read… Probably about the time I finished the first volume of それでも歩むは寄せてくる, so around mid-Volume 2, sometime, is when it really just clicked. That was helped along by the other series, since it’s by the same author, so I got double the exposure to his writing style.

Now I read a chapter of Takagi-san in about 10-15 minutes, on average, though some do take longer.

Sort of, yeah. The difference in nuance is that if you have the ください, it just makes it more polite: “Please don’t ignore me.”

Dropping it makes it more direct and casual.

118

I gotta ask a last couple of things on the last panel of page 13 that got me blocked there

Summary

いやー、その反応が見たくてさぁ
I don’t really get what’s happening here… what is the たい helper adjective doing here to express want? Why is 反応 (reaction) the subject? Doesn’t this means that the reaction is making the action of みたい? And last but not least, what the hell is happening to たくて?
This sentence is confusing me since this afternoon and I really can’t interpret it

Last
まぁ、そういうコトだから安心して筋トレ続けなよ
I don’t get why this sentence ends with the command adjective なさい (contracted into な).
It makes sense till I don’t add なさい
Well (まぁ), because of (だから) a thing like that (そう言うコト) (you) have to/should (??なさい??) be relieved and (安心して) continue training (筋トレ続け)
Is this correct? I’m unable to unfocus at the moment, I hope there are no typos and major mistakes :pray:

119

Nice, it’s so good, it’s a read I’d like to do eventually :laughing: (in a distant time from now, maybe after the tenth volume of takagi san and a couple of more difficult mangas :joy:)

:star_struck: this is a goal!

120
Pg. 13, Final two panels

So, in ～たい constructs, it’s more common to replace を with が. While both are technically grammatically accurate, the が provides a stronger emphasis on the object. I know Japanese Ammo with Misa talked about a bit, I think in her ～たい video, but I can’t remember exactly when, I’m afraid. But you’ll more often see ～たい with the が particle replacing the を particle. It remains a direct object, regardless of this, though.

A post on Reddit also talked about this a bit, and somebody posted an explanation they received from a native:

My interpretation of that:

Two examples, then

“When you use が, it emphasizes “English as compared to such things as other languages””

Therefore: (Two more example sentences):

“There are many Japanese who want to study English, not Spanish.” (Where the が is attached to 英語, making it the direct object of 勉強したい)

“I want to study English, not math.” (Same as above)

In such situations, it is natural to use が.

So it just stresses the object more strongly than を would on its own.

It’s a little abstract, but like I said, the important thing is to realize that it happens a lot with ～たい, especially, and it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a direct object, in this case.

て form of たい, it’s conjunctive, and is kinda just trailing off, like we’ve talked about before. The さぁ just makes it a bit more playfully assertive.

Overall interpretation of the sentence:

“Nahh, that reaction I wanted to see…”

More naturally:

“Nahh, I just wanted to see that reaction…”

I mean, you have it right that it is the command form, truncated.

“Well, because of a thing like that, don’t worry and continue training.”

I wouldn’t use the words “have to; should” with なさい, because なさい is a command and not a suggestion. She’s just telling him that because it’s just a rumour, and she just brought it up to see his reaction, not to worry and just continue the muscle training.

It’s a gem, for sure. Hilarious and entertaining, but yeah, I’ve done some quick skims of the first few pages of the light novel, and I would miss a lot of the jokes and stuff, I feel like, so I want to read it later. Maybe after Mitsuboshi Colors has trained me further on picking up absurd humour, eh, @ChristopherFritz? :laughing:

You’ll get there soon, at your rate! :grin: