Small doubt on page 6
別にただの筋肉痛だよ
How is 別に used here? I was reading an article about implicit negatives but I don’t see it here, and 別に ‘s use in a non negative sentence still feels weird
別にただの筋肉痛だよ
How is 別に used here? I was reading an article about implicit negatives but I don’t see it here, and 別に ‘s use in a non negative sentence still feels weird
Maggie-sensei talks about こそ a bit, so this might help. The pertinent thing is that with time words, such as 次, it emphasizes the time much more strongly.
Similarly, という can be used for emphasis purposes, and I think that’s what it’s doing here: marking that “Next time” even more strongly. When used as emphasis, I struggle to translate it into words, to be honest, because it’s become fairly abstract by that point. Somebody else might want to take a crack at a literal translation, but the important thing is that this 次 is very important.
"It is that next time awareness will be boosted.
My (natural, not literal) translation of the whole sentence:
“While I reflect on this suffering, my awareness for the next time (I am teased) rises. That (そこにあるの) is the purpose of this punishment!”
(I specified out the そこにあるの because that phrase would more literally be: “That existing”; or “The existence of that” (where that is the point just raised), but it’s far more natural to just say “that” on its own).
Either way, I think you got the spirit of the sentence.
It’s because it is weird, in that it breaks grammar rules, but it does this constantly in casual speech.
That’s why I suggest just looking at 別に as it’s own thing, regardless of being in a negative sentence, as pretty much meaning “It’s nothing; nothing in particular; no problem (if in response to an apology or something)”. It’ll save you a lot of headscratching and trying to puzzle it out, because it just breaks the rules, so trying to apply logic where there is none won’t do you any favors.
As a comparison: Americans are really guilty of using “irregardless” in casual speech. It breaks grammar rules, and if it were being taken literally, would even mean the word it is altering (regardless) actually means the opposite (since ir- is a negating prefix, and regardless already has a negating suffix in -less. Double-negatives are against grammar rules, but happen all the time, anyway). It makes no sense, but people do it all the time (to my chagrin and mild eye twitch).
How I read this sentence:
“Ah, no, it’s nothing, my muscles are just sore.”
Awesome, now I get it, even tho there still is a lot of confusion about the use of という for emphasis purposes, I knew that this grammar point could do many things but this precise use keeps feeling very weird, I will research it. If you have good reading material, please link it!
About 別に, I’ll just accept it as that way you suggested, it actually feels more natural, it just wasn’t following my logic.
I didn’t know the ‘irregardless’ thing, interesting ![]()
Thanks as always for the help!
次こそはという意識を高めるのだ
I’m not sure if there are any other choices, grammatically speaking in that sentence? If we drop という ( 次こそは意識を高めるのだ) then the meaning change, it’s “next time, I will raise my awareness”. For 次こそは to qualify 意識 what’s left? 次こそはの意識 is weird, I don’t think we can use の to connect a piece of a sentence like 次こそは to a noun. But the grammar という fits well, と quote what’s before and it can be anything, and いう is a very so can modify a noun like 意識 as usual.
More doubts on the という grammar point ![]()
Edit: see down for a second attempt at translating it
In what way this という function emphasizes the the noun it follows? I see this as linking two parts of a sentence (what’s before という modifies what follows, in this case 意識 as you mentioned above) but I’m not able to see this emphasizing purpose…
I hope yiu’re able to get what I mean, I’m struggling to explain myself on this ![]()
I don’t either. To me it look like the という enable 次こそは to qualify 意識, so mostly a grammatical purpose.
I’m not sure what a non-emphasized 意識 version of this sentence would be.
Indeed, that’s exactly my thought, let’s see if someone has something to add! I also want to ask natives on hellotalk about this and see what it’s like to them
Second attempt at interpreting and translating panel 5 of page 8, currently I’m blocked on these two and can’t make any progress
この筋トレという苦行から解放される時…
From this penance called (という) muscular training, a chance of receiving liberation…
それすなわちオレが高木さんにからかわれなくなった証なのだ。
That, in other words, Is that it will result in the vindication (証?) of me not receiving teasing from Takagi-san.
It feels like I’m missing a lot of things and rearranged things put of my mind…
But that’s really the best I could come to
One use of という is to say “is called” or “is known as”.
It can be used like:
Warwickという町に住んでいます = I live in a town known as Warwick
ジョンという犬がいます = A dog called John
So この筋トレという苦行 could be something like “This penance known as muscle training”.
Making the whole sentence something like “at the time that I am liberated from this penance known as muscle training…”
I’m one of the less advanced readers in this club though, so I could be mistaken!
Thanks for the suggestion
after staring at it for 30 minutes I actually came to the same conclusion that in this case という is used as “…called…”.
But I don’t get something in regard of your translation - correct me where I’m wrong. My major doubt on it concerns the presence of から. It marks a starting point (since/ because/ etc…) and also acts as a conjugation (right…?), so, shouldn’t its presence mean that the first part of the sentence is not describing the second part?
An example to explain my logic.
Your translation → “at the time that I’m liberated from this penance known as muscle training” (here everything is describing 時)
But:
→ “from (から) this penance called muscle training, (“ will result ”?) a chance/occasion/moment (時) of receiving liberation” (here on the countrary, the only thing that is modifying 時 is 解放される)
This is also the only way I can explain why the next sentence begins with それすなわち
Yes, I read it as everything before 時 modifying 時.
To use another example:
動物園から動物たちが解放された時、雨が降っていた。= When the animals were released from the zoo, it was raining.
everything before 時 is modifying 時 here. the topic is “the animals from zoo released time” or more naturally “the time that the animals were released from the zoo”.
Similarly, in この筋トレという苦行から解放される時… the topic is “the time when (Nishikata is) liberated from the penance known as muscle training”
Then the second part of the sentence is それすなわちオレが高木さんにからかわれなくなった証なのだ。 = Then, that is proof that I am no longer being teased by Takagi-san"
So if you put it all together -
この筋トレという苦行から解放される時…それすなわちオレが高木さんにからかわれなくなった証なのだ
At the time that I am liberated from this penance known as muscle training… Then, that is proof that I am no longer being teased by Takagi-san"
Meaning that when there is a time that he doesnt have to do any of his “penance” pushups, that will be proof that he has not been teased by Takagi-san.
At least - thats how I understood it. But again, I’m not one of the stronger readers, so there is a good chance I’ve misunderstood it myself ![]()
Oh I see how it works now! It makes more sense of anything else. But where is in your example the ‘in other words’ ? Was it possible to translate it differently?
I’ll admit I glossed over that a bit ![]()
I don’t quite understand how to use すなわち yet other than I know you can use it a bit like つまり which I always think of as “basically…” in english. So yes, “in other words” works for that.
So perhaps “At the time that I am liberated from this penance known as muscle training… then, in other words that is proof that I am no longer being teased by Takagi-san” or “Then, that is basically proof that I am no longer being teased by Takagi-san” is a more accurate translation.
Sounds good! This couple of sentences from page 8 were quite tough ![]()
Basically, in the first sentence
時 is modified by この筋トレという苦行から解放される , while 解放される is modified by この筋トレという苦行から… that から in that point tricked me.
I still have a small doubt about how なった is modifying からかわれない
The なる verb is still quite confusing because till now I’ve seen it cam be translated in a multitude of different ways
なる has a lot of different translations, but they all boil down to essentially marking a target of change. This change could happen in a number of different ways, by becoming something, by attaining a skill, by completing an action, etc., etc.
Examples:
医者になりました
“I became a doctor.”
彼女は日本語が上手になりました
“She has gotten good at Japanese.”
Literally: “As for her, Japanese skillful became.”
When used with a verb, like we have here, the best way to think about なる, I think, is “to reach a state of~” (which isn’t far from “to become” at all!)
In our case:
からかわれない = “to not be teased”
Because you want this to be adverbial to be able to connect to なる, ない becomes なく.
からかわれなくなる = “to reach a state of not being teased”
My translation of the sentence, with that in mind (though @lucylavelle absolutely has the sentence meaning correct, I’m just intentionally adding the grammar phrasing for なる even though it sounds weird in English):
“At the time that I am liberated from this penance called muscle training, that, in other words, will be proof that I reached the state of not being teased by Takagi-san.”
This was easy-ish compared to the rest which took me various hours, but I’d like to check that everything’s good
オレは腕立てをしたくないから、からかわれないように全力でがんばるぞ…!!
Since (から) I don’t want to do push ups (腕立てをしたくない), I’ll persist (がんばる) with all my strength (全力で) so that (ように) I won’t get teased (からかわれない)
About this - is the で particle after 全力 the ‘means’ particle?
Translation looks good, and yes, that’s the “by means of” particle.
I was missing already 2 or the 3 you pointed ![]()
Very helpful, I think I get it now ![]()
Getting lost on the easiest sentences, as usual
えええ!?なんでだ!!
昨日よりも多くなってるじゃないか…なんでだ!?
昨日よりも → more than yesterday
多くなってる → getting more
じゃないか → is not, isn’t it (か)?
What ai don’t get is the role of the negation here, I thought that the sentence was simply saying something like “how is it possible that it’s more than yesterday?” (Referring to the times he got teased), but if I add the negation the sentence loses its sense, because indeed today he got fooled 23 times
What am I missing?
EDIT: Panel 3 on that page is quite disorienting too ![]()
もうイヤだ筋トレなんて
What is this? Every element of this sentence apart from 筋トレ disorients me… what is なんて there for? I remember its 2 main uses but I don’t know if here is acting as a dispregiative toward muscle training…?
Edit 2: same problem with the second speech bubble of that last panel, there seems to be a negation too much for me so I’m obviously missing something evident
明日こそはからかわれないように気をつけねば
This too is totally disorienting, it was already a problem to use conditionals and ように by themselves but together in a sentence it’s crazy ![]()