Teasing Master Takagi-san 😝 ・ Volume 1, chapter 2

Chapter 2 discussion thread

Main info

Week 2 8 May 2021
Chapter 2: プール
Volume pages 20-34
Last week Click!
Next week Click!
Home thread Click!
ABBC Click!

Vocabulary

Please read the guidelines on the first page before adding any words.

Anki deck
Kitsune deck

Discussion guidelines

  • Please don’t hesitate to ask questions, even if you think it’s a silly question. Helping each other learn is what book clubs are all about! :slight_smile:
  • When asking for help, please include the ‘chapter page number’. This makes it easier for others to help you and it makes the information in this thread more searchable. The ‘chapter page numbers’ are the ones in between the panels on every page, not the ones that occasionally appear at the bottom of the page (those would be the volume page numbers).
  • Please blur out major events in the current week’s pages and any content from later in the book/series by using spoiler tags: [spoiler]text here[/spoiler].

Participants

How is the reading going?
  • I am reading along this week
  • I will catch up later
  • I won’t be reading (anymore)

0 voters

13 Likes

Looking forward to seeing what shenanigans occur this week haha
Read the first couple of pages, so if anyone can help on any of the points I’ve picked up or let me know if I’m wrong anywhere, that would be appreciated

Chapter pages 2 and 3

「はあ・・・」
Haa…

「いいなあ・・・みんな楽しそうで。」
This is no good… Seems like everyone is having fun.

「そーねー。」
Indeed.

「くそ・・・プール授業初日だっていうのに見学なんて・・・」
Damn… The first day of pool lessons but they said I had to study by watching…

  • feel like this one could do with some extra explanation. I feel like I get the gist, but not sure one the specifics, so a breakdown would be helpful

「この手のケガさえなきゃ・・・」
If this hand injury wasn’t clear… (implying he would be able to join the others)

「そういえば西方、そのてのケガって・・・」
Come to think of it, that hand injury… (implying she’s asking how he got it)

「え・・・ああ。」
Urm…ahh.

「いろいろ・・・あって・・・ね。」
Various… accidents… you know.

  • I’m not sure, but I think the あって here is 合う with the meaning “to have an accident/have a bad experience”. Might be wrong.

「のらネコなでようとしたら噛まれたんでしょ。」
You tried to stroke a stray cat and it bit you, right?

「え!?なんで知ってんの!?誰にもいってないのに!」
Eh!? How do you know that!? Even though I didn’t tell anyone!

「あはは、正解なの!?テキトーに言っただけなのに!」
Ahaha, it’s correct then!? Although I only said it noncomittally!

  • Here I’m not sure what the に after テキトー is for. I also wasn’t really sure what テキトー meant, but doing some seraching showed that it could mean “lazy/sloppy/non-committal” etc

「えええ!?」
Ehh!?

4 Likes

some of those long strings of kana take me ages to parse and figure out, but i understood the gist of it after reading through it twice which feels pretty good.

i dont understand the speech bubble on page 24 panel 2 at all though, can anybody help me there?
starts with 別にいいよ

i only get that she doesn’t want an ambiguous answer like that, and he says something like he doesn’t know, which is why she responds saying she won, but i dont get exactly what hes saying here

2 Likes

Chapter Pages 2 and 3

This なあ differs from other uses of な. Here’s a quote from Maggie Sensei about なあ:

In this case, Nishikata is feeling/thinking 「いい」 as he watches his classmates.

For an English translation, I’d probably go with “Must be nice…” It’s a bit loose in the translation, but I think it captures the sentiment.

Sometimes I like to add “inner quotes” to make it a little easier to see what’s going on.

「『プール授業初日だ』っていうのに見学なんて」

The のに is joining two sentences together, so let’s further break this down by splitting it:

「『プール授業初日だ』っていう」

This one is a bit difficult to translate because we don’t know who the subject is. Perhaps:

“It’s called the first day of swimming lessons.”

“They say it’s the first day of swimming lessons.”

「見学なんて」

“Something like observational study.” (has a feel of disdain in the なんて)

Putting these together with のに meaning “even though”, we get something like:

“Even though it’s called the first day of swimming lessons, it’s observational study.”

For an English translation, I’d probably reword it a bit, and change the second half from a noun-sentence to a verb-sentence: “Even though it’s our first day of swimming lessons, I’m stuck watching.”

Are you ready for a “how am I supposed to know that” moment?

This さえ is…a particle.

(I’ve updated the vocabulary sheet.)

Via Maggie Sensei’s page on さえ:

Remember the “if only” meaning for 「さえ~ば」.

Let’s break down the sentence and see how it applies.

「この手のケガさえなきゃ・・・」

The noun ケガ is modified by この手, giving us the injury of this hand or simply this hand’s injury.

At the end we have なきゃ (colloquial for なけれ). This has has a meaning along the lines of “if (it) doesn’t exist; if there is no …; if (one) doesn’t have …” Its a conditional, meaning there should be something after it, but Nishikata’s left that part unspoken (because it’s obvious what would follow).

Altogether, we get something like, “If only I didn’t have this injured hand…”

適当(てきとう) is one of those words you get a feel for over time. The に after it turns it into an adverb, like -ly in English. You may notice you even used -ly in your translation for the word.

For English, I might go with “Even though I just said it randomly” to give a similar feel.

Chapter Page 6

(べつ)にいいよ」 is a common phrase meaning “I don’t mind” or “I don’t care.” For example, if your friend asks if he can borrow your car to drive to the bank, as he puts a ski mask over his head, and checks the locks on his empty briefcase, you might respond, 「(べつ)にいいよ」.

In the case of Nishikata, he’s saying he doesn’t really care, followed by 「()りたくない」, ()る (to know) + たい (want, desire) + く (to join another word to it) + ない (don’t). "I don’t want to know. If I remember right, the し at the end is used when stating a reason.

12 Likes

ahhhhhhh i feel so dumb not seeing the たい, literally just reviewed it in bunpro not too long ago.
thanks for the explanation, appreciate it

1 Like

That would be a source of the error haha, no worries though. Still got a similar sense of the meaning at the least

Thanks as usual for the corrections/clarifications

1 Like

I’m going to be doing probably 1-2 pages per day depending on how dense some pages are.
If I make any mistakes please let me know!

p2

「はあ…」
Haa… (sighing)

「いいなあ…みんな楽しそうで。」
Must be nice… everyone looks like they’re having fun.

「そーねー。」
Seems like it.

p3

「くそ…プール授業初日だっていうのに見学なんて…」
Damn… Even though it’s the first day of pool lessons, something like studying by observation is…

Nishikata is probably disappointed that he is being forced to watch and can’t participate, is the feeling I get from it.
If I were to translate it more loosely, it would probably something like “Even though it’s the first day of pool lessons, I can only watch…”

「この手のケガさえなきゃ…」
If only I didn’t have this hand injury…

Had to look up さえ here, but I think さえ is being used as a particle while the なきゃ is a contraction of なければ

「そういえば西片、その手のケガって…」
By the way Nishikata, about that hand injury…

「え…あぁ。」
Huh? Oh.

「いろいろ…あって…ね」
This and that… happened… you know?

It seems いろいろあって is a set expression that means something like “what with this and that” which sounds a little unnatural

「のらネコなでようとしたら噛まれたんでしょ。」
You got bitten by a stray cat when you tried to pet it, right?

「え!?なんで知ってんの!?誰にも言ってないのに!」
Huh!? How do you know!? I haven’t even told anyone!

「あはは、正解なの!?テキトーに言っただけなのに!」
Ahaha, I was right!? Even though I just said it halfheartedly!

「えぇえ!?」
Whaaat!?

4 Likes

I think I solved most of the grammar by searching and reading the responses above. But I’ll keep watching the discussion to see if there is anything I couldn’t realize that I missed.

Also, watched the passive form lesson from Japanese Ammo with Misa this time before reading the chapter. It definitely helped, they are using it a lot in this manga.

There is a part that’s not clear though:

p5

見学の理由は聞かないで おこう

聞こえて んの かよ!!

The bolded parts look like some colloquial forms, but I couldn’t parse them out.

In the second one, is he saying 「聞こえて いる かよ!!」 by meaning something like “Is she hearing me?” / “Is she able to hear me?”

3 Likes

This is て置く, which is used to show that you are planning/deciding something for the future (There might be more nuance that I don’t know myself)
Then おこう is the volitional form.
I would translate it as something like “Let’s not ask about the reason behind the 見学”

Not sure about the this one, but if it’s 聞こえているの, then often the い disappears as a contraction, and a る next to a の becomes an ん.
聞こえているの → 聞こえてるの → 聞こえてんの
So would we translate it as “So it is audible?!!”?
From context I thought it would mean something more similar to “So you did hear (me)!”, But I could very well be wrong.

4 Likes
5 Likes

Thanks! That’s really helpful :grin:
Every time I watch one of her Videos I have an “Aha!” moment, so I should probably do that more often

3 Likes

Some more progress made, some more questions to ask, I think people probably know the drill by now

Chapter pages 4 and 5

「ドジだね。」
That’s a blunder, isn’t it.

「ぐ・・・」
Guh…

「高木さんは今日なんで、見・・・が・・・く・・・」
Takagi-san, why are you watching…

「そういえば・・・」
Come to think of it…

「プールを見学してる女子はだいたい生理だ、」
As for girls who are studying pool lessons by observation, generally they’re on their periods(?)

「生理は腹が痛いらしいぞ。」
Regarding their periods, their stomachs appear to be painful.

「って、2組の高尾が!!」
said Takao’s 2 classes(?)

  • not sure with this one, 高尾 appears to be a proper noun though since I can’t find any word info for it

「ん?」
Hm?

「・・・・・・・・なんでもない。」
…it’s nothing.

「見学の理由は聞かないでおこう・・・触れてはいけない気がする・・・」
Regarding the reason for studying by observation, I won’t ask… I feel as if it would be wrong…

「なんで今日見学してるかって?」
Why am I studying by observation today, you said?

「聞こえてんのかよ!!」
I didn’t think she was listening!!

「じゃあ、私西片のケガのこと当てたんだから、当ててみてよ。」
Well, the matter of your injury was exposed, so I volunteered to look after you.

  • Not super confident on this one, but I feel like that’s the gist at least
3 Likes

Takao of class 2 probably.

My take:

Well, I guessed Nishikata’s injury, so try to guess (my reason)

I read the whole chapter, now I will go back for grammar and vocabulary I have missed. Takagi is being borderline cruel to poor, easily embarrassed Nishikata. :smiley:

4 Likes

高尾 is a name. 2組の高尾 is “Takao from class 2”

3 Likes

This makes more sense, thanks

3 Likes

Is it a blunder to pet a cat? I thought blunder is something more strategic. ドジ also means clumsiness. And since Takagi is sadodere(wiki calls her that), I’d go full “You are such a klutz”

He is interested why she is 見学(here: study by observation) rather than swimming. Is there a natural way to ask about staying on the bench? Is 'Takagi, why are you benched?" a thing? I’d go “why you are not swi–” probably.

Class 2. Compare with e.g. homeroom class 1ねんAエーぐみ from my my hero academia.
Our heroes seem to be in 2-1 (according to their t-shirts).

Yep. プールを見学してる is about 女子

Takao from 2nd class of (probably the same year, so from 2-2.)

First 当てたんだ is closer to “1. [v1,vt] to guess (an answer)” considering the context.
So second is the same but in forms ~てみる(try) x ~て(request) forms. Basically “since I’ve guessed, you do the same”

4 Likes

How useful is it for you guys to translate line for line? I’m not trying to start anything here or criticize, im geniunely curious.
I’ve often heard you don’t want to map the japanese sentences to a 1 to 1 english translation, but instead to the concept itself in your brain, seeing that the languages are so different.
I’ve never learned a foreign language before, is it good enough to read through the manga, look up vocab and grammar and move on when you think you get it, or should I be actively translating into my native language?
My goal overall when reading japanese is to instantly get it, which method brings me there?

6 Likes

I did it when I just started out, but I stopped doing it because I noticed it was not a very efficient use of my time. Getting that perfect translation is really hard when you are trying to stay true to the grammar, because a lot of Japanese nuances don’t have any elegant counterpoints in English. So you end up spending time getting the translation ‘just right’ when that time could be better spent just reading more (in my opinion). For me personally, I only translate sentences that I just can’t figure out otherwise.

6 Likes

Chapter pages 4 and 5

This is one of those areas where the lack of stated subject makes it more difficult to know who or what is doing the action.

My understanding of ()こえる is the subject is the sound being heard. In that case, we can expect native Japanese readers to know the subject is a sound, not a person, in which case there is no need to specify the subject (unless unclear from context).

Here are a few examples:

  • (こえ)()こえる: voice is audible
  • バスの(おと)()こえる: sound of bus is audible
  • なんか(へん)(こえ)()こえる: some kind of strange voice is audible
  • 除夜(じょや)(かね)()こえる: New Year’s bell is audible
  • (まち)(いとな)みが()こえる: town activity is audible
  • ピアノの(おと)()こえる: piano’s sound is audible
  • (あたま)(なか)(こえ)()こえる: voices in (my) head are audible

Viewed this way, I believe Nishikata’s thinking is along the lines of “Was it audible?!” or “Was it heard?!”, where “it” refers to was he was thinking in the prior panel.

Edit: Rather than past-tense, perhaps “Is it being audible” or “Is it being heard” may be more accurate.

When studying on one’s own, doing a 1 to 1 mapping is probably overall inefficient. The main advantage is that it can help expose grammar you don’t know very well, but would have missed without the breakdown.

In a group study environment, if others are giving feedback, it can help you catch things you thought you knew, but actually didn’t. This can be grammar you do not know properly (which happens a lot with the receptive form, as people are taught to treat it like the passive voice), or something you didn’t notice (such as a single letter in a verb that changes its meaning).

Try both methods, and see what does and does not work for you.

For me, translating initially had the pro of helping me catch all the grammar I needed to learn. It was a barometer for my understanding, and it felt good to reach a point where certain things I could translate without having to look up the grammar.

Now that I’m further along, translating everything can be a drag that slows me down.

When I worked my way through 「ひとりぼっちの○○生活」 volume 1 last year, I stopped writing out English translations between pages 40 and 41.

Repeated exposure. Doing line-by-line translations is a tool to help gauge your understanding. It doesn’t help with instant understanding upon reading. Instead, you have to keep reading, keep seeing the same grammar, and keep looking up the grammar you don’t know.

As a pattern recognition machine, your brain will reach a point where you don’t need to route Japanese through English. But only if you keep reading and learning.

(One can work writing, listening, and speaking into it, but my primary focus has been on reading, and this is a book club, so I tend to talk only about reading.)

5 Likes

Right that makes sense, I see now that it’s intransitive (I understand that transitivity in Japanese is a somewhat different concept than in English) so I guess I just didn’t notice that earlier

This is why I’m going through line by line - since right now I’m not confident enough with my understanding and feedback from others can only help me to work out what I might be getting wrong and help learn how to fix that in future. When you’re on your own it’s very hard to actually verify if you’re understanding or if you just think you’re understanding. Then obviously the issue becomes how to communicate your understanding to others - and currently the main way to do so is by using a shared language, which happens to be English.

Personally, I’m less so trying to translate than just to convey what each part means to check I’ve understood - so while @maykeye’s first couple of bits of feedback are well-intentioned, I feel like they’re moreso stylistic choices for translation than really changing the meaning as such. Either way, writing this stuff down for now helps me in breaking down the more complex bits since I’m still getting to grips with the structure of clauses and such

4 Likes