Please don’t hesitate to ask questions, even if you think it’s a silly question. Helping each other learn is what book clubs are all about!
When asking for help, please include the ‘chapter page number’. This makes it easier for others to help you and it makes the information in this thread more searchable. The ‘chapter page numbers’ are the ones in between the panels on every page, not the ones that occasionally appear at the bottom of the page (those would be the volume page numbers).
Please blur out major events in the current week’s pages and any content from later in the book/series by using spoiler tags: [spoiler]text here[/spoiler].
Looking forward to seeing what shenanigans occur this week haha
Read the first couple of pages, so if anyone can help on any of the points I’ve picked up or let me know if I’m wrong anywhere, that would be appreciated
Chapter pages 2 and 3
This is no good… Seems like everyone is having fun.
Damn… The first day of pool lessons but they said I had to study by watching…
feel like this one could do with some extra explanation. I feel like I get the gist, but not sure one the specifics, so a breakdown would be helpful
If this hand injury wasn’t clear… (implying he would be able to join the others)
Come to think of it, that hand injury… (implying she’s asking how he got it)
Various… accidents… you know.
I’m not sure, but I think the あって here is 合う with the meaning “to have an accident/have a bad experience”. Might be wrong.
You tried to stroke a stray cat and it bit you, right?
Eh!? How do you know that!? Even though I didn’t tell anyone!
Ahaha, it’s correct then!? Although I only said it noncomittally!
Here I’m not sure what the に after テキトー is for. I also wasn’t really sure what テキトー meant, but doing some seraching showed that it could mean “lazy/sloppy/non-committal” etc
Let’s break down the sentence and see how it applies.
The noun ケガ is modified by この手, giving us the injury of this hand or simply this hand’s injury.
At the end we have なきゃ (colloquial for なければ). This has has a meaning along the lines of “if (it) doesn’t exist; if there is no …; if (one) doesn’t have …” Its a conditional, meaning there should be something after it, but Nishikata’s left that part unspoken (because it’s obvious what would follow).
Altogether, we get something like, “If only I didn’t have this injured hand…”
適当 is one of those words you get a feel for over time. The に after it turns it into an adverb, like -ly in English. You may notice you even used -ly in your translation for the word.
For English, I might go with “Even though I just said it randomly” to give a similar feel.
Chapter Page 6
「別にいいよ」 is a common phrase meaning “I don’t mind” or “I don’t care.” For example, if your friend asks if he can borrow your car to drive to the bank, as he puts a ski mask over his head, and checks the locks on his empty briefcase, you might respond, 「別にいいよ」.
In the case of Nishikata, he’s saying he doesn’t really care, followed by 「知りたくない」, 知る (to know) + たい (want, desire) + く (to join another word to it) + ない (don’t). "I don’t want to know. If I remember right, the し at the end is used when stating a reason.
I’m going to be doing probably 1-2 pages per day depending on how dense some pages are.
If I make any mistakes please let me know!
Must be nice… everyone looks like they’re having fun.
Seems like it.
Damn… Even though it’s the first day of pool lessons, something like studying by observation is…
Nishikata is probably disappointed that he is being forced to watch and can’t participate, is the feeling I get from it.
If I were to translate it more loosely, it would probably something like “Even though it’s the first day of pool lessons, I can only watch…”
If only I didn’t have this hand injury…
Had to look up さえ here, but I think さえ is being used as a particle while the なきゃ is a contraction of なければ
By the way Nishikata, about that hand injury…
This and that… happened… you know?
It seems いろいろあって is a set expression that means something like “what with this and that” which sounds a little unnatural
You got bitten by a stray cat when you tried to pet it, right?
Huh!? How do you know!? I haven’t even told anyone!
Ahaha, I was right!? Even though I just said it halfheartedly!
This is て置く, which is used to show that you are planning/deciding something for the future (There might be more nuance that I don’t know myself)
Then おこう is the volitional form.
I would translate it as something like “Let’s not ask about the reason behind the 見学”
Not sure about the this one, but if it’s 聞こえているの, then often the い disappears as a contraction, and a る next to a の becomes an ん.
聞こえているの → 聞こえてるの → 聞こえてんの
So would we translate it as “So it is audible?!!”?
From context I thought it would mean something more similar to “So you did hear (me)!”, But I could very well be wrong.
Is it a blunder to pet a cat? I thought blunder is something more strategic. ドジ also means clumsiness. And since Takagi is sadodere(wiki calls her that), I’d go full “You are such a klutz”
He is interested why she is 見学(here: study by observation) rather than swimming. Is there a natural way to ask about staying on the bench? Is 'Takagi, why are you benched?" a thing? I’d go “why you are not swi–” probably.
How useful is it for you guys to translate line for line? I’m not trying to start anything here or criticize, im geniunely curious.
I’ve often heard you don’t want to map the japanese sentences to a 1 to 1 english translation, but instead to the concept itself in your brain, seeing that the languages are so different.
I’ve never learned a foreign language before, is it good enough to read through the manga, look up vocab and grammar and move on when you think you get it, or should I be actively translating into my native language?
My goal overall when reading japanese is to instantly get it, which method brings me there?
I did it when I just started out, but I stopped doing it because I noticed it was not a very efficient use of my time. Getting that perfect translation is really hard when you are trying to stay true to the grammar, because a lot of Japanese nuances don’t have any elegant counterpoints in English. So you end up spending time getting the translation ‘just right’ when that time could be better spent just reading more (in my opinion). For me personally, I only translate sentences that I just can’t figure out otherwise.
This is one of those areas where the lack of stated subject makes it more difficult to know who or what is doing the action.
My understanding of 聞こえる is the subject is the sound being heard. In that case, we can expect native Japanese readers to know the subject is a sound, not a person, in which case there is no need to specify the subject (unless unclear from context).
Here are a few examples:
声が聞こえる: voice is audible
バスの音が聞こえる: sound of bus is audible
なんか変な声が聞こえる: some kind of strange voice is audible
除夜の鐘が聞こえる: New Year’s bell is audible
町の営みが聞こえる: town activity is audible
ピアノの音が聞こえる: piano’s sound is audible
頭の中で声が聞こえる: voices in (my) head are audible
Viewed this way, I believe Nishikata’s thinking is along the lines of “Was it audible?!” or “Was it heard?!”, where “it” refers to was he was thinking in the prior panel.
Edit: Rather than past-tense, perhaps “Is it being audible” or “Is it being heard” may be more accurate.
When studying on one’s own, doing a 1 to 1 mapping is probably overall inefficient. The main advantage is that it can help expose grammar you don’t know very well, but would have missed without the breakdown.
In a group study environment, if others are giving feedback, it can help you catch things you thought you knew, but actually didn’t. This can be grammar you do not know properly (which happens a lot with the receptive form, as people are taught to treat it like the passive voice), or something you didn’t notice (such as a single letter in a verb that changes its meaning).
Try both methods, and see what does and does not work for you.
For me, translating initially had the pro of helping me catch all the grammar I needed to learn. It was a barometer for my understanding, and it felt good to reach a point where certain things I could translate without having to look up the grammar.
Now that I’m further along, translating everything can be a drag that slows me down.
When I worked my way through 「ひとりぼっちの○○生活」 volume 1 last year, I stopped writing out English translations between pages 40 and 41.
Repeated exposure. Doing line-by-line translations is a tool to help gauge your understanding. It doesn’t help with instant understanding upon reading. Instead, you have to keep reading, keep seeing the same grammar, and keep looking up the grammar you don’t know.
As a pattern recognition machine, your brain will reach a point where you don’t need to route Japanese through English. But only if you keep reading and learning.
(One can work writing, listening, and speaking into it, but my primary focus has been on reading, and this is a book club, so I tend to talk only about reading.)
Right that makes sense, I see now that it’s intransitive (I understand that transitivity in Japanese is a somewhat different concept than in English) so I guess I just didn’t notice that earlier
This is why I’m going through line by line - since right now I’m not confident enough with my understanding and feedback from others can only help me to work out what I might be getting wrong and help learn how to fix that in future. When you’re on your own it’s very hard to actually verify if you’re understanding or if you just think you’re understanding. Then obviously the issue becomes how to communicate your understanding to others - and currently the main way to do so is by using a shared language, which happens to be English.
Personally, I’m less so trying to translate than just to convey what each part means to check I’ve understood - so while @maykeye’s first couple of bits of feedback are well-intentioned, I feel like they’re moreso stylistic choices for translation than really changing the meaning as such. Either way, writing this stuff down for now helps me in breaking down the more complex bits since I’m still getting to grips with the structure of clauses and such