Teasing Master Takagi-san 😝 ・ Volume 1, chapter 1

[mariodesu]

@ChristopherFritz

In the end, context should make it 100% clear what the meaning is.

It looks pretty easy to tell wether it’s じゃない or byebye from the context… I guess I won’t have problems with it then

@anon99047008

I hesitate to use always, because exceptions always come up, but I’m comfortable saying “most of the time, and pretty much every time I’ve seen it so far, yes.”

I get it by the way, I was watching the last かぐや様 episode and someone says what gets translated as ‘nothing special’ - what I heard was just 別に without negations (but don’t trust my listening skills)

@anon99047008

Does that help at all? Or is it a grammar issue we need to look at?

It actually was both, and while reading your message something clicked I think I get it now

いや…別にぜんぜんショックとかじゃねーよ。
Literally “well… particularly, at all, shock and such things, is not”
Rearranged “Well… it’s not particularly a shock or such thing at all” . 別に and ぜんぜん are describing with the negation the shock and とか is a particle that says that “such things (such as being shocked) is not”. Or something like that

[mariodesu]

There’s another thing I don’t get.

Last box of page 13, first speech bubble

見てやる - I don’t really get the use of やる with other verbs and how it changes them… looking on internet I found that it’s used to describe an action done for someone else that can bring negative nuances (doing something for someone as a favor, or doing something bad to someone etc…) but I don’t get how this applies to this situation, I mean he’s just looking to an object, and there can’t be no 0-が human subject here

Edit: the sequent sentence is giving me problems too

Last speech bubble of page13

こうなりゃ全部！！
こう could be the adverb meaning ‘in this way’, ‘thus’, or ‘such’
I guess なりゃ is just a contraction for the -eba conditional of なる - なれば but knowing this doesn’t help at all, and moreover I also have the doubt of why the -eba conditional is being used here, I thought it was meant to put focus on the hypothesis and on wether it would become true or not but it totally doesn’t look like fitting the situation
全部 all, entire, whole
So we have
“In this way, if it transform completely” ? What the hell does this mean maybe I misinterpreted the verb and it’s referring to pulling out completely the eraser from it’s cap or just to expose the entire name written on the erasor…?

[anon99047008]

@mariodesu

I get it by the way, I was watching the last かぐや様 episode and someone says what gets translated as ‘nothing special’ - what I heard was just 別に without negations (but don’t trust my listening skills)

I haven’t watched the most recent episode yet, but I would bet that you heard correctly. 別に is used on its own quite often, in basically an “implied” negation sense, and “Nothing special” would be a fair interpretation.

@mariodesu

見てやる - I don’t really get the use of やる with other verbs and how it changes them… looking on internet I found that it’s used to describe an action done for someone else that can bring negative nuances (doing something for someone as a favor, or doing something bad to someone etc…) but I don’t get how this applies to this situation, I mean he’s just looking to an object, and there can’t be no 0-が human subject here

やる has a couple of very different meanings. One of them, and the one that I think applies here, is essentially “doing the verb with a strong will and determination”. When it’s used this way, it does have, I think, a slightly negative context, like the speaker is unhappy about doing it, but is nonetheless strongly determined to do so, which would fit here, since Nishikata is unhappy about it not being his name but is nonetheless determined to see whose name it is. That’s my take on it, at least. てやる is a little weird, so I’m not 100% sure, and would definitely be open to a correction if somebody disagrees.

@mariodesu

こうなりゃ全部！！
こう could be the adverb meaning ‘in this way’, ‘thus’, or ‘such’
I guess なりゃ is just a contraction for the -eba conditional of なる - なれば but knowing this doesn’t help at all, and moreover I also have the doubt of why the -eba conditional is being used here, I thought it was meant to put focus on the hypothesis and on wether it would become true or not but it totally doesn’t look like fitting the situation
全部 all, entire, whole
So we have
“In this way, if it transform completely” ? What the hell does this mean maybe I misinterpreted the verb and it’s referring to pulling out completely the eraser from it’s cap or just to expose the entire name written on the erasor…?

こうなりゃ Breakdown

This one might help to break down a little further. こうなれば (which こうなりゃ is a contraction of, as you correctly guessed) is a set phrase on its own meaning “If it’s come to this”. You can get there by breaking it down as follows:

こう = “in this way; thus; such”

なる = to become, changed to なれば to become the conditional, “if it has become”

Literally: “If it has become thus”

Which sounds very dramatic and over the top in English nowadays, so we just change it to, “If it has come to this”

Overall, Nishikata is kinda speaking in broken sentences, presumably because he’s a bit worked up, right?

Damn it! I’m going to look! If it’s come to this, (implied/carried over from the last sentence: I’m going to look at) the whole (implied: name written on the eraser)!

At least, that’s my take on it. This one is still a little weird because it feels very broken up.

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

I haven’t watched the most recent episode yet, but I would bet that you heard correctly. 別に is used on its own quite often, in basically an “implied” negation sense, and “Nothing special” would be a fair interpretation.

I heard this 別に another 2 times after that, in 2 different anime! It’s very used I see, I get what you mean, maybe we can say that it’s like saying “particular… (nothing)” since the term is widely used the negation gets implied

Also now I understand the てやる point way better!

@anon99047008

こうなりゃ Breakdown

I can’t believe this finally makes sense now I see, I was tricked by 全部 and by ‘if it has become’ that didn’t really fit in my westerner way of thinking. In italian we would say “if this is the situation” or something like this bur I have to get used to the preponderant use of なる for things that aren’t actually transformations. Only a question on your point about なれば. You translated it as “if it has become” but I kept seeing “if it becomes” so, why not present instead of past?

[anon99047008]

@mariodesu

You translated it as “if it has become” but I kept seeing “if it becomes” so, why not present instead of past?

Because it sounds nicer in English translated that way. You could still word it “If it becomes thus”/“If it comes to this” and it’s going to be the same meaning, it just doesn’t match the natural English wording as well. Another case of, “Japanese words things slightly differently than we do.”

Edit: Though it sounds like it matches the Italian fairly well, based on how you worded your example

[mariodesu]

I get it

I’m almost over with this chapter, I’d like to end it today but I’m beginning to feel very sleepy so I’ll drop this last panel

Summary

しかも思い通りの行動するし、
しかも and yet
思い通り as one expects (Is it good ‘predictable’ here?)
行動する I guess I know what this means but I don’t know how to translate, how would you?
し I don’t know what this is, I never saw し at the end of a sentence
“… and yet, your predictable behavior…” is it good like this?

これだから西片からかうのやめらんないわ。
これ this
だから so, therefore
の I guess this is just nominalizing 西片からかう
やめらんない this is やめられない (negative potential of ‘to stop something’) that get’s contracted
Not sure, but - “because of this, I can’t stop teasing Nishikata (you)”
I’m totally not sure if it’s receptive or passive, how do you tell? Only by context?

[anon99047008]

@mariodesu

しかも思い通りの行動するし、
しかも and yet
思い通り as one expects (Is it good ‘predictable’ here?)
行動する I guess I know what this means but I don’t know how to translate, how would you?
し I don’t know what this is, I never saw し at the end of a sentence

I think this しかも is more like the “moreover; furthermore” meaning, as opposed to “and yet”.

Since there is a の connecting this to the 行動する, I’d word it as “Expected～行動する)”

行動 is “conduct; action; behavior” in English. する turns it into a verb, so it becomes “to behave”

し has a few uses, but at the end of a sentence it is essentially making your point, or emphasizing the phrase, so to speak. A good way to look at it is kinda like adding, “you know” at the end of a sentence in English.

Overall interpretation of this phrase: Moreover, (you) behaved exactly as (I) expected." (in natural English) More literally: Moreover, expected behavior, you did, you know."

@mariodesu

I’m totally not sure if it’s receptive or passive, how do you tell? Only by context?

Receptive form and passive form are different words for the same thing, but if you are asking how to tell the difference between potential form and passive/receptive form, then yes, context is the only way you can tell the difference. In this case, it’s potential form, I think…

Reasoning

The unstated subject here is Takagi-san, with the nominalized 西片からかう being the object which is receiving the action, the potential form of やめる.

“Because of this, I can’t stop teasing Nishikata.”

So you have the right understanding, imo.

[mariodesu]

I made it someway, the last panel from Nishikata was easy-ish

Last panel from page 15

見てろよ Just watch
いつか someday
ぜったいにからかって totally tease (you)
Now the interesting part, I don’t know how I managed to recognize the grammar because it’s literally the first time I’m meeting two new grammar points
はずかしがらせてやる this is はずかしい + がる (helper verb that transforms an い-adjective into feeling/looking that adjective) in it’s causative form which is がらせる (which of course is in its て form to attach やる that has the exact purpose we just discussed. This complex adjective-verb should mean, if I’m not wrong, something like “cause (you, takagi-san) to feel embarrassed/humiliated” plus that やる nuance that I can only translate as “that’s what I’m gonna do!”

Whole sentence rearranged in english:
“Just watch… someday I’ll totally tease you and make you feel embarrassed!!” (Perhaps in english would be more fluid to just say “I’ll embarrass you”…?

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

I think this しかも is more like the “moreover; furthermore” meaning, as opposed to “and yet”.

Right! Sounds way more sensed

@anon99047008

行動 is “conduct; action; behavior” in English. する turns it into a verb, so it becomes “to behave”

Ok, so ‘expected behaving’ could go…? I didn’t use the verb behave because I’m not used to this english verb and I only know that it’s mainly to describe a bad behaviur (like “stop behaving!”)

@anon99047008

Moreover, expected behavior, you did, you know."

Thanks for adding a literal translation, not being native english I feel the literal translation always helps me more understanding the structure if I missed something (I always try not to rely too much on the translation tho). Question on this: so the suru verb it’s not attaching just to 行動 but to 思い通りの行動 right?

@anon99047008

but if you are asking how to tell the difference between potential form and passive/receptive form, then yes, context is the only way you can tell the difference. In this case, it’s potential form, I think…

Yes, you got it again! Sorry for the confusion, I meant potential indeed.

Thank you for the help again

[anon99047008]

@mariodesu

Ok, so ‘expected behaving’ could go…? I didn’t use the verb behave because I’m not used to this english verb and I only know that it’s mainly to describe a bad behaviur (like “stop behaving!”)

That is actually the opposite of how most American parents would reprimand their children. Most of the time you would actually tell your kids, “Behave!” or “You’d better start behaving!” In this case, I would define behave as like, “to act according to expected norms”

Though one could tell a child to “Stop behaving like that!” the “like that” implies poor behavior.

But the other definition of “to behave” is a little more neutral and is basically just “to act in a certain way.” That way could be a good or bad. It doesn’t have a specific connotation to it.

@mariodesu

Question on this: so the suru verb it’s not attaching just to 行動 but to 思い通りの行動 right?

The する is attaching directly to 行動, and the 行動 is being modified by the 思い通り (connected by the の), so indirectly, I suppose it is modifying the whole thing, but you’ll see 行動する on its own without anything in front of it as well, so just keep that in mind.

@mariodesu

Whole sentence rearranged in english:
“Just watch… someday I’ll totally tease you and make you feel embarrassed!!” (Perhaps in english would be more fluid to just say “I’ll embarrass you”…?

I think you’ve got it on the money, yep. Well done parsing out those grammar points! You’ll be a pro in no time.

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

That is actually the opposite of how most American parents would reprimand their children. Most of the time you would actually tell your kids, “Behave!” or “You’d better start behaving!” In this case, I would define behave as like, “to act according to expected norms”

Damn, that’s a big blunder happy to be corrected at english too, I learnt many things also for what concerns english since when I joined this forum!

@anon99047008

Though one could tell a child to “Stop behaving like that!” the “like that” implies poor behavior.

I think my misconception about it was born because of this kind of sentence. Happy to be corrected anyway

@anon99047008

I think you’ve got it on the money, yep. Well done parsing out those grammar points! You’ll be a pro in no time.

Beware, I could believe you at this stage!
I imagine it will be lots of fun when I’ll start to see keigo and more complex sentences (even tho nishikata interior monologues are a nice challenge )

Btw, I started studying japanese with the tofugu guides and heard a lot about this intermediate wall. What is this? What are your experiences with it?

[mariodesu]

@mariodesu

Whole sentence rearranged in english:
“Just watch… someday I’ll totally tease you and make you feel embarrassed!!” (Perhaps in english would be more fluid to just say “I’ll embarrass you”…?

I was giving a second look at yesterday’s translation and I noticed that maybe more than ‘totally tease you’ (like - I’m going to tease you for well) it could be more appropriate ‘absolutely/ definitely tease you’ (like - I’m going to tease you for sure). I ask it because I watched again the 絶対 word on the dictionary and could have misinterpreted it yesterday night due to being sleepy
(If no one corrected me I’m sure it’s ok too, but I’m just being meticulous here)

[mariodesu]

Page 16, panel 1

「期待してるわ」
期待 : expectation
してる : making 期待 into verb
“Expecting it, hah” (I’m not sure what this means, my intuition says “I’ll be waiting for that moment” or “I’m counting on it” but ‘to expect’ seems weird here…)

「あ！ムリだと思ってるだろ」
I don’t get this
あ！ what!?
ムリだと here we have と nominalizing and quoting ムリだ which should mean ‘it’s impossible’
思ってる progressive form of 思う be thinking
だろ guess? Seems? This feels weird in such a convinced sentence from Nishikata
Once again I got the elements but I don’t know how to link them

EDIT: solved, I made some research and figured out by myself - apparently it’s very simple:
ムリだ impossible + 思ってるだろ be thinking = it’s impossible と (you) be thinking + だろ I guess (a bit stronger and more confident that how it looks here maybe).
「 Ah! You’re probably thinking it’s impossible!! 」

Page 16, panel 2

まーね。i kept looking for it as a whole word then realized my stupidity and that ね is just there as particle. “You think… huh?”

ホントだぞ！覚悟してろよ！！！
ホントだぞ means just ‘for real’ (like - ‘I’m serious!’) with a strong and masculine nuance given by the particle ぞ

覚悟してろよ here 覚悟 means readiness/ preparedness and してろ makes it a verb.
してろ is して (suru’s te form) + いろ contracted into ろ (imperative of iru)
Is my guess correct?
So, it should mean
“It’s the truth! Be ready!!!”

Page 16, panel 3

ムリだと same of earlier. It’s impossible (indirectly quoted)
思うよー ( I ) think
= It’s impossible, I think よー

大チャンスで二分の一を外すようじゃね。
I’m struggling at interpreting it
大チャンス big change
で I’m missing this use of the で particle once again. I suppose I should study a bit more because I keep not being able to interpret it, any suggestions here?
二分の一 half (what is the difference between this and just saying はん or 半分?)
外す to miss (the big chance, I suppose)
よう ‘seemsm
じゃね ?

Edit: problem solved! The thing that was tripping me is ようじゃね. I asked a native and discussed on the short questions thread and the native confirmed me that it’s short for ようでは plus ね ending particle. The sentence is actually inverted with the previous one and the overall meaning is
“It’s impossible, I think…”
“…like… (if) you missed a 50/50 on a great chance”
This was a tough one

[shuly]

you’re doing great!!!

And now that you finished 1 story… let’s see how long it takes you to catch up … (if you continue the series)… I’m guessing you’ll catch up faster than you think!!!

This story btw is in the anime… now that you read it you could watch it and hear it spoken Not sure what options you have to watch but It’s called “Eraser” in the English version… It’s the very first half of the first ep of the first season.

[mariodesu]

Thank you the more I read the more I like it so I will definitely keep going! About the time to get to where the rest of the group is.. I’m not sure, it’s just one chapter and 5 volumes and half are missing

@shuly

now that you read it you could watch it and hear it spoken

Nice idea you know! To watch it after ending the chapter, definitely gonna do tonight

[anon99047008]

@mariodesu

Btw, I started studying japanese with the tofugu guides and heard a lot about this intermediate wall. What is this? What are your experiences with it?

That would probably be a question for somebody else. I very much still feel like I’m a beginner. I’m still constantly finding things that challenge me, and I have a lot to learn, so I don’t feel like I’ve hit any wall, and I wouldn’t call myself intermediate yet by any stretch.

@mariodesu

I was giving a second look at yesterday’s translation and I noticed that maybe more than ‘totally tease you’ (like - I’m going to tease you for well ) it could be more appropriate ‘absolutely/ definitely tease you’ (like - I’m going to tease you for sure )

It is definitely that “for sure” meaning. English also uses totally to casually mean “for sure,” so I didn’t think anything of it yesterday.

By “for well,” do you mean along the lines of “thoroughly”? I just want to make sure I understand what your understanding of “totally” entails so I can watch for this sort of thing in future.

[Details=Pg. 16, Panel 1]

@mariodesu

(I’m not sure what this means, my intuition says “I’ll be waiting for that moment” or “I’m counting on it” but ‘to expect’ seems weird here…)

Your intuition is correct. One of the other meanings of 期待 is “anticipation,” which is related to “expectation,” but differs slightly. It’s kinda like…waiting eagerly for something you think is going to happen. Though in this case, she is being sarcastic when she says it. “To anticipate” would be the verb form.

@mariodesu

だろ guess? Seems? This feels weird in such a convinced sentence from Nishikata

You’ve got the meaning of the sentence. だろう isn’t necessarily all that doubtful, though it certainly can be. A lot of times, though, it can be somewhat rhetorical, like the English “right!?”

[/details]

You’ve got the last two panels figured out already, so well done! And congratulations on your first chapter completion.

[mariodesu]

@anon99047008

I very much still feel like I’m a beginner.

I heard this is a sign that you’re intermediate

@anon99047008

By “for well,” do you mean along the lines of “thoroughly”? I just want to make sure I understand what your understanding of “totally” entails so I can watch for this sort of thing in future.

Exactly

@anon99047008

Your intuition is correct. One of the other meanings of 期待 is “anticipation,” which is related to “expectation,” but differs slightly. It’s kinda like…waiting eagerly for something you think is going to happen. Though in this case, she is being sarcastic when she says it. “To anticipate” would be the verb form.

This wasn’t making much sense, vut I found out why - this time was an english lexicon problem. The ‘anticipation’ you provided made me search in italian and now it all makes sense! Another occasion when studying japanese in a foreign language gives me problems (nothing to worry about tho ;))

@anon99047008

You’ve got the last two panels figured out already, so well done! And congratulations on your first chapter completion.

Thank you I’m very happy of the achievement, this is my first chapter ever and will stay in the memory

[ChristopherFritz]

@mariodesu

Btw, I started studying japanese with the tofugu guides and heard a lot about this intermediate wall. What is this?

This is typically called the “intermediate plateau”, and it can apply to learning any language.

When you are learning in the beginning, there are a lot of high frequency vocabulary words and grammar etc. to learn.

But after you learn all the most common ones (for the material you read, watch, etc.), it starts getting harder to find new material to learn. You will keep seeing new words, but maybe they only show up once every six months, so it’s harder to learn them. Even if you do learn them, you might forget them before the word shows up again!

Here is a graphic I found online that goes a good job at illustrating it. Notice the steep climb at first, then it flattens out a lot, like a plateu.

(I tried to find a good chart where the language learner wasn’t hanging himself, but there wasn’t a better one out there!)

Edit: Another graphic illustrating the concept, from a web site on stroke recovery:

[shuly]

@mariodesu

Thank you the more I read the more I like it so I will definitely keep going! About the time to get to where the rest of the group is… I’m not sure, it’s just one chapter and 5 volumes and half are missing

We got there 1 week at a time…don’t push yourself and burn out… Stick with 1 chap a week for the 1st vol and see how it goes…I keep resisting the urge to finish vol 6 haha don’t wanna upset our fearless leader @MrGeneric

@MrGeneric

That would probably be a question for somebody else. I very much still feel like I’m a beginner. I’m still constantly finding things that challenge me, and I have a lot to learn, so I don’t feel like I’ve hit any wall, and I wouldn’t call myself intermediate yet by any stretch.

This would be the intermediate wall!!! You don’t even realize you are there haha…I finally feel like I am at an intermediate level (B1) but there’s so much stuff I either forget or vocab that you remember you should know but get stuck, still working on the N3 grammar… for me intermediate feels like a train going nowhere…but you are moving forward…

not to go off topic but I have been told I’m doing fine and I can communicate well enough to travel in the countryside alone (except maybe touhoku-ben ) … never felt like I’d even reach this point…listening skills are better but with vocab and grammar I don’t know can’t always follow… the real test will be this fall when (assuming things go smoothly) I actually get to finally spend a month vacation (which is so desperately needed) looking forward to meeting my online teachers and friends in person

[ChristopherFritz]

@shuly

I keep resisting the urge to finish vol 6

Focus a bit on Yukari and the other books