OK, I’ll try to focus on this only, but I might end up giving you the translation instead of just ‘how to approach’ it. The grammatical breakdown is
なくて も 体 は…
without even/including body [topic]
So first of all, なくて is still a て-form. Therefore, it cannot modify a noun. In order for a verb to modify a noun, it needs to be in its dictionary form, be that in the present tense, present progressive tense, past tense or past progressive tense. That means that 体 needs to be considered separately from なくても. What is it there for then? The answer is in the は. 体 is the topic of the next clause.
@ZizkaHere’s the rest of my explanation: As a result, and this is what I meant here:
If you translate it this way, you’ll get ‘Even if consciousness does not exist, body は…’. So you’re considering the body, but given that fact that the body has no consciousness. That’s all!
Ah, I see where you’re coming from. If it’s listed as one word it might be a bit confusing, but なくて is still a verb which has a subject; since the verb is always at the end of the clause, the only possible subject for なくて is 意識. 意識がなくても、[the rest]. The next clause is 体は汚れる, of which 体 is the subject. Even if there’s no consciousness, 体は汚れる.
Ironically I didn’t even know that 文目鳥（あやめどり) is an obscure name for the lesser cuckoo, which is more commonly called ホトトギス but that’s also the name of a haiku magazine that I’ve never read and didn’t want to feign any association with haha.
I regret to say that… I read this as being meant for me i.e. that since I hadn’t manage to explain everything clearly, you, @Zizka, would be selling all your stock to @ayamedori instead!
Attributive phrases (noun phrases that describe a noun/basically work like adjectives) connect like this:
[i-adjective][noun] → 山の多い国 “a country which has lots of mountains”
[na-adjective]な[noun] → ジャガイモが好きな人 “a person who likes potatoes”
[verb (plain form)][noun] → 東へ向かう電車 “a train heading for the east” / 空を飛んでいる鳥 “a bird flying in the sky” / 記者会見を開いた社長 “the CEO who held a press conference”
In 意識がなくても・体が汚れる the first clause isn’t attributive to the second one, though you could phrase it like 意識がなくても汚れる体 “a body that gets dirty even if there’s not consciousness” or 意識もない体が汚れる “a body that doesn’t even have a consciousness gets dirty” to make a part of it attributive to 体.
That’s why it’s good to learn about the grammatical functions of various forms. The forms (see @ayamedori’s examples) at the ends of phrases that get joined to nouns are called 連体形. 体 because 体言 (taigen) are substantives (=nouns) and don’t have declinations. The stuff that sticks to verbs or adjectives are called 連用形, because they connect to 用言, which are declinable words.
Or an adjective (which has a subject).
It works not only for ない but any other adjective (仕方がない 鼻が長い 体が高い)
As long as there is a subject-tagging particle が the adjective applies to that subject.
Actually, everything before し is a justification. That’s all し tells us, if you ask me. (I don’t complicate things for myself wondering what else it can mean since I’ve never seen a non-justificative し before.) It’s a reason for which the nurse is moving the patient. What comes after し can be another justification, or another sentence altogether. Both are possible. In this case though, it’s another justification. Which is why…
There’s a も. Reason 1: the body gets dirty. Reason 2: bedsores will form. ‘Why are you doing that?’ ‘Well, [reason 1]. Also, [reason 2].’
By the way, this is the other meaning of できる, which strictly speaking should be written as 出来る in this case, because it’s the proper/original meaning. Kanji breakdown: 出=out; 来=come. Means ‘come out’ in Chinese, but in Japanese, it’s slightly more figurative… it’s ‘come out’ in the sense of ‘to be formed’ or ‘to be made of’. As a mnemonic, you can think of ‘come out of the oven’. Something that’s out of the oven is ‘complete’, ‘ready’ and ‘formed’. The process of ‘making’ or ‘formation’ is over. The words in single quotes are all concepts associated with the proper meaning of 出来る.
Finally,
The verb here is 動かす, which you can see as a combination of 動く and する. (That may not be etymologically accurate, but there are a lot of す verbs that function like this, so we might as well think this way.) Thus, I’d say the sentence is closer to ‘if we don’t make it/him move’=‘if we don’t move it/him’. This isn’t the causative. It’s an actual verb meaning ‘to make move’. These す verbs, in my experience, usually don’t have the ‘allow/permit/let’ sense that the causative can have.
EDIT: Did a bit of reading up, including going through the dictionary. Some of it is stuff I can’t wrap my head around because I can’t understand the Japanese in the definitions, but generally speaking, the only し that isn’t a justification that seems common enough… is #2 on your list: し for contrast. However, even then, the example in my dictionary seems to use it as a way to list contrasting facts… in order to justify a remark/opinion: 「遊びには行きたいし、暇はないし、面白くない」
But wouldn’t they use the kanji 出 if they wanted to use that meaning? The other day you said kana was used when we wanted to refer to the non-traditional use of a kanji.
Nb. The “U” should have been “I”… They are next to each other on my keyboard and my auto-correct is stupid! Also more than half the time I type “or”, the keyboard inserted “it”; same with “there” when I want “the”. Grrr I don’t always catch and correct the typos.
[quote]
Where did you get the “unconscious” part from? Can you elaborate?[/quote]
Also… Apparently I misread your vocabulary list when you wrote consciousness (I just double-checked), my brain noted it as “unconsciousness”! My bad. Also…I apologise for trying out a whole sentence (even though anything I say is NOT LIKELY to be an answer haha)…I hear ya on the “hints only, please” Apologies offered.
Scrolling up now to read… So much discussion today!
[Nag to Jonapedia]
I thought you had to be studying! (Just like I’m supposed to be working… Yet here we are)
[/Nag]. Haha ha.
Hahaha. Like I said, those are the formal rules, but they’re not always followed. It’s just like how in French, I used to ask for someone’s forgiveness by saying “Je vous en demande pardon.” Strictly speaking (or so I think), my sentence is the most complete way of using “demander pardon” in the sentence, because I ought to specify the person (“vous”) who would pardon me, as well as the cause (“en”, referring to something I had done). However, very few people say that (not even my advanced French teacher at the Alliance Française), even if such sentences are in dictionaries like Le Robert. Most people drop the circumstantial “en”. Another example would be people dropping “ne” in casual conversation and just using “pas” alone.
My example for Japanese is the fact that the Hamarikyu Gardens in Tokyo write 〜て下さい on their entry chips even though ください is being used as an auxiliary verb in that case and not as a request meaning ‘please give me [object]’. Manga, as far as I can tell, are fundamentally quite informal, so it’s unlikely that you’ll find the rules being followed, especially when kanji use is fairly rare for a certain word. In the case of できる, I very rarely see it in kanji.
The rule I gave you is basically the ‘official recommendation’, and is something you might want to be aware of in formal writing, like for business or academics. That’s about it though.
This is only extra funny, because I STOPPED MYSELF specifically from clarifying that was “nuts” as in acorns walnut pecans and NOT “the other”/banned!
TLDR
I learned this morning in my discord “phone call” to Japan (to read KiKi out loud and to discuss our sentence “interpretations”) that the official slang name for what I have been calling “collapsing triangles” (details tag) is “TL;DR tag” or “tldr button”. (as you probably know, TL;DR stands for “too long; didn’t read”).
Not necessarily. Guess it’s clearer for you if I list explicit possibilities. The two main ways I’ve seen し used:
Justification listing, possibly followed by a conclusion/action based on the justifications: 「お金はある し，時間はある し，映画でも見よう」(I’m pulling these examples from my dictionary. Hope this counts as fair use.)
Joining two similar facts and emphasising them: 「しゃべっている人もいない し，横を向く人もいない」
In this case, it’s #2, and it happens that both are justifications.
Well, there isn’t much to say…
伸びる (のびる) : 1-dan verb, to grow (for hair)
ヒゲ : facial hair. The kanji could vary: 髯, 髭, 鬚, depending on where it is on the face)
Note all those kanji have the 髟 (long hair) radical (used for human hair; like 髪 (かみ, hair on top of the head)
So, the hair grows even on unconscious people (it even grows on dead people!)
失礼します
I know I should post a picture of the next pages; but I can’t do pictures right now.
御免なさいm(__)m
文目鳥（あやめどり) is an obscure name for the lesser cuckoo, which is more commonly called ホトトギス but that’s also the name of a haiku magazine that I’ve never read and didn’t want to feign any association with haha.
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