Let me start by saying that I love SRS for studying, and WaniKani has been a huge help for me in learning kanji and vocab.
But now the time has come to get into grammar. I have looked at a few different sources but can’t seem to find one that actually uses SRS.
For example, let’s say I use Genki. Great. Chapter 1 explains how to introduce yourself, tell time, talk about family, etc. There are a few nice exercises. And then it’s like, “Okay now that you know that, let’s move on to chapter 2: shopping!”
And I’m like, um, wait a minute…
Because as much as Genki or similar resources do a good job of explaining how a certain bit of grammar works (self introduction, telling time), the only way it is going to stick in my brain is if I review/test it (which is what WK does). 100% chance if I don’t review/test what I learned in Genki chapter 1, in a few weeks it’ll be gone, unless it’s something I already learned from WK (like the words for “student” or “university”).
Anyway, in short my question is, how do you go about studying/reviewing Japanese grammar? And in particular, are there any SRS systems available for this purpose?
A textbook and doing exercises. I tried Bunpro but I didn’t find it too helpful for me. I ended up memorizing the example sentences and not the actual grammar points.
I will give Bunpro another shot but from the little I have used it, I think it is not a good resource and its grammar explanations are simultaneously overly wordy and unclear.
For example, I just read literally the very first grammar lesson on the use of が vs は. It’s confusing and unclear. Even the examples don’t clarify anything.
The first example is “I like coffee” versus “I dislike tests” which use different identification particles. The explanation? This:
In both of these sentences, が puts focus on the person as being ‘the one’ who is performing an action/existing in some way (as opposed to any other person). Because of this, が is usually said to highlight what comes before it, while は highlights what comes after it.
First of all…what? That is a bad and convoluted explanation.
Second of all, here are the examples:
コーヒーが好すきです。
and
テストは嫌きらいです。
“I like coffee” versus “I don’t like tests”. Why do I need to use a different identification particle if I am just saying I like or don’t like something?
To be clear, I am not asking you to explain it to me, I am merely pointing out that Bunpro doesn’t do what I am paying for it to do: help me understand this grammatical concept.
(I swear they need to start paying me by how often I suggest them here…)
Most of the time I don’t study grammar (wish I had the time and energy ). But once in a blue moon, I like to go on Kanshudo, click on the next grammar point, read it, read the example sentences, maybe create an example or two myself…
And promptly forget everything in the next months of not doing any grammar again
I did Textfugu and Tae Kim back in the day. I’ve tried Genki etc but I hate textbooks.
Now I just look up grammar as I come across it. Specific grammar study doesn’t work for me.
I tried Bunpro but it wasn’t sticking and it burnt me out…
I read a lot of manga and novels for grammar exposure.
I had the same problem with Duolingo. It wasn’t too bad at the start, but soon it started to just use different grammar in sentences with no explanation for why you would say something one way and why another would be wrong. I eventually stopped using the lessons, but I do find the Hiragana and Katakana portions helpful for keeping it fresh in my head. I’ve “mastered” everything on those but I still do a daily “lesson” (which is just review at this point) to keep up with it.
My verdict on Duolingo, for Japanese at least, is it is useful for getting a start, but I don’t think it is good for teaching you to speak it.
I will be taking a look at some of the other suggestions here, though. My original plan was to get to level 10 in WaniKani, then start looking into grammar resources, especially ones that will help me learn to speak it as well as read it (another problem with Duolingo for Japanese. It’s more useful for reading than speaking, IMO)
I agree that Duo was good when I was just getting started. Something I didn’t know at first was that there is a little section summary at the beginning of each new section that actually explains some grammar points. It’s easy to miss and I found it helpful once I started reading it.
I think that with SRS for grammar which uses the same set sentences, that is an inherent problem. I find the same with the grammar track on renshuu, which I am currently using. Once I have seen a sentence twice it is hard to not just plop things into the right slots based on the fact that I just remember it. I try to slow down and look at from the point of view of the grammar and make sure to think about why it is that way. It helps a little, perhaps, not sure.
Yeah, that was my initial impression and feeling as well. I have been using it daily for some time now and I soon found it to be perfectly usable. Not going to nominate it for any “great UI design” awards, but I did grow accustomed to it fairly quickly.
The explanation is in general correct, but these 2 sentences use は and が in different/non-compatible ways. You can say コーヒーが好きです and コーヒーが嫌いです. However, these are general statements. The テストは嫌いです is a more context-centric sentence.
The best way to learn grammar is by reading and learning to consciously and eventually subconsciously recognize patterns you have studied. The resource you use to “study” grammar in a vacuum isnt very important (Some are better than others and I completely agree that BunPro isnt worth it) You can choose whatever works for you but just make sure you dont spend too much time doing this. Knowing 80% of everything in say Genki 1&2 VS knowing 99.99% of everything in it really will not matter as long as you start reading a lot.
For SRS, I think you’ll find that, despite your initial impressions, BunPro is the best grammar tool out there.
I would also say that using it alone is not the best way to go, especially if you’re relatively a beginner in grammar. Better to use it alongside a textbook. Bunpro supports the use of textbooks via the use of ‘decks’ tailored to several popular textbooks, and even online resources like Tae Kim. Use the textbook as the main learning resource, and use Bunpro to practice the lessons. Also, BP includes links/references to other resources for each grammar point, so it’s also good as a reference tool to find info about various grammar points.
Later on, once you’ve got the basics of grammar down, for example by finishing one textbook, you can transition to using just Bunpro alone, if you like. I started out using Genki I and then Genki II and some other resources. But then I switched to using BP as the main tool, and checking out the referenced resources if I run into something difficult.
I think は-vs-が is probably not a very good test for evaluating a grammar resource. It is a notoriously complicated and difficult to understand topic for learners of Japanese, and so a large part of “it is confusing” is likely to be not the fault of the grammar resource’s explanation, but inherent in は-vs-が. Almost any other grammar structure is going to be a more helpful one to look at for comparing one resource against another, IMHO.
Personally I really like tokini andy’s website. It is subscription based but it’s really useful and they will respond to your questions, example sentences, etc. to correct and help you. he does go off Genki 1 & 2 and Quartet. It’s just good to have someone EXPLAIN the grammar and then you can do practice questions, etc. to help commit it to memory and practice writing which I think is an important skill to have when learning a language.
A way is just write and get corrected, then re-read the related grammar points. Rinse and repeat. It might be hard at the beginning, but nothing is impossible really. One of such platform is LangCorrect.com
Nonetheless, imo, there is a limit to how useful that can be if you don’t get enough reading and exposure. Also, consider your goal properly, is it to comprehend or to communicate?
I don’t think it’s very practical to chase theoretical perfection.
). But once in a blue moon, I like to go on Kanshudo, click on the next grammar point, read it, read the example sentences, maybe create an example or two myself…