Comment here if you want WaniKani to add 5 more levels with the remaining Joyo kanji

Noooo, make it stop :slight_smile:

thing is, there’s a disconnect there between two different uses of Jouyou Kanji. on the one hand they’re supposed to be a literacy baseline. on the other hand, they’re a list of kanji permissible for use in government documents. as a consequence, there are some quite rare kanji on that list, which are included because they are e.g. used in the constitution.

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It isn’t quite a literacy baseline. It is a baseline of what is permissible in government documents and newspapers, and minimum requirements to be taught in middle school and high school, but not really much more. You’ll see kanji not on the list get thrown around with furigiana even in manga all of the time, and you will sometimes see furigana on some of the more obscure ones on the list.

As others mentioned, some kanji are on the list because they appear in old government documents, and some aren’t on lists for political reasons (even adding 俺 was controversial in the 2010 revision), and some aren’t on the list for very mysterious reasons (eg: why isn’t 綺 on the list?)

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Because it’s only used in one common word, which is almost always written in kana?

And you can always write 奇麗 :wink:

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Some more levels that u can choose wheter u take or not sounds not that bad, but first u have to unlock it before u can enter and start leveling in the new zone. Some new features like Quests and Teambattlefieldfights where u team up would also be cool.

But 璧 is on the list, and it is only common in the single word 完璧.

what? maybe if youre reading kids books

I searched my books and 489 instances of it in kanji vs 75 in hiragana and 16 in katakana. So if we are gonna pull out the almost always, it would be almost always in kanji, no?

tbf 双璧 isnt exactly rare either lol

but yeah I mean the joyo kanji is really just a general idea and by no means has any implications for what kanji youll see. I think its more of an indicator of what youll see with furigana rather than what youll see in general.

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I approve 420% this message. That’s all that matters

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Yeah, its pretty easy to look at a series like sao and realize its no literacy baseline. Over 2900 unique kanji in the series. Nearly a third of the unique kanji in that series are non joyo. For a native who might know the word and get help with furigana those words may not be a big deal, but for us the furigana wont help too much.

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Well, isn’t that a bit of a biased comparison? There’s other kinds of written word than books/literature (esp. fancy LNs).

So maybe yeah not almost always, but I’d say ‘usually’ if we talk about all kinds of situations.

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I would say it’s a fair comparison. In a lot of older books like the ones from Edogawa Ranpo you’'ll see way more kanji even for kana-only words. Stuff like 為に, but also 出鱈目 which Vanilla mentioned some time ago and I saw recently, too.

And I think @Vanilla reads more modern books, right? :slight_smile:

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Sure, but I was taking about other mediums than books.

But I concede I can’t really weigh the frequencies accurately, and also go by the fact most dictionaries I’ve seen mention the kana version being more common.

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258 are missing.

Yeah for sure, although I wouldn’t call my LNs fancy by any means. I’ve read only a few that really tried hard to use fancy words and the total search was across 67.

I just don’t have the data to check other sources. When I think of literacy though I think of newspapers, books, and Wikipedia. I don’t see that word too much in everyday life apart from bathrooms honestly.

Ye dat one be in old books a lot lol. Was in ningen shikkaku like 3 or 4 times too.

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It’s only 145.

258 is the number of JLPT kanji missing.

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And “JLPT” is really nebulous since that just refers to the kanji that was listed officially before they updated the test in 2010 and stop giving word/kanji lists. Basically all of the kanji that weren’t jouyou were just there purely to be used in particular names.

Also, @morteASD and @Vanilla, for BCCWJ (a corpus compiled from a wide variety of written material from 1985 to 2005, plus some internet sources for a few years after), there are 3293 hits for 綺麗, 6666 hits for きれい, and 1296 results for キレイ. Then, even tossing out newspapers and government documents, which are required to use a kana version, we only see those numbers drop to 6546 and 1294, respectively (which makes sense, since they rarely use the word). Going very extreme and restricting it to just books and blogs, we get down to 2258, 4739, and 651. So in the end I would say that the kana version is slightly more common, but not dramatically so. This about matches with what I see in my experience

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Now that’s beautiful.

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