Well I suppose it all comes to what you consider “adequate”. The paragraph you just quoted for me is a clear example of why Genki is very poor at explaining grammar. It tells you なければ means "If you don’t do… " but it doesn’t explain why. It tells you “いけません” means “you cannot go”, but it does not explain why. In the end you just have to memorise the two expressions and stick them together.
A better book would start by explaining how the verb stem system works, at some point it would introduce the potential form. It would then explain what the conjunction ば is and how it’s used. Only then it would introduce なければいけません having given the reader an actual chance to understand it.
I do consider it adequate for a beginner level textbook. Ideally, someone would be supplementing their grammar lessons with either a teacher or some other grammar resource, so it wouldn’t even be an issue. Genki isn’t a super-detailed reference book, it’s a beginner level textbook meant to get an absolute beginner to dip their toes into the Japanese language.
I’m also sorry if this comes off as aggressive, I just think Genki gets too much hate from some people. It’s not perfect, but no resource is going to be.
Edit: Also my example was a reply to someone saying Genki didn’t explain anything at all. It might not go too in depth, but it does give some explanation.
To each their own. Genki works for many people and I am happy for them. For me it didn’t work at all and I feel the hate Genki gets from many others is very well deserved. No resource is perfect, but I do feel there are better resources/combinations of resources out there. But of course it all comes to personal tastes, needs and expectations, so the best thing one can do is going to a library and try a few out and see what works for him and what doesn’t, and whatever textbook one chooses I do recommend to supplement it with a good reference book (like the dictionary of japanese grammar) and internet resources.
I didn’t say that. I asked if it really did give no explanation as Walter implied.
You don’t actually need to understand any of the stuff you mentioned to be able to use なければいけません. Sure, more information can get you a better understanding, but there’s a time tradeoff if you so that for every grammar point.
The reason a native resource can spend all that time explaining how the parts work without actually any usuable stuff along the way is because the natives it’s intended for don’t need to be told how to use なければいけません.
The average learner just wants to know how to use the language, preferably as quickly as possible. We here at a site like WK are already outliers in terms of how much interest we have in the language.
It’d definitely not necessary, but it for some people it helps remember things, as it creates more connections in the brain. It’s a bit like mnemonics and radicals. One doesn’t need to know that 休 is made up by 人 and 木, and many people learn kanjis without ever learning radicals or using mnemonics. However it works very well for many others.
That’s why I understand that some people are happy with Genki etc: if they can actually learn things that way… good for them! I certainly can’t (or at least I can’t in an efficient way), and I need to have some understanding on what’s happening in the background to be able to remember stuff.
This is pretty similar to what I do. I will watch the Japanese Ammo video on a topic which helps me to really understand the topic well. Then I will add it to Bunpro for review/memorization. I tend to skip the textbook because my eyes just glaze over due to the amount of text, but if you’re good with textbooks Genki would probably be a good supplement, I just find I understand it pretty well after watching the Japanese Ammo video.
I feel like there is a substantial contingent of anti genki people springing from the cure dolly videos. Especially where you said it was “wrong” – I just don’t think that’s right. Also Genki DOES explain なければいけません
but it waits to explain the potential form until the next chapter.
I studied mathematics in school – when you take calculus they usually just give you good heuristics to use to calculate integrals and differentials. When you’re advanced you learn WHY those heuristics work and what the logic is behind them – it simply wouldn’t be good use of a beginners time. By the time you get to the “logic of it” you’re already quite comfortable computing them.
The key to success is just 練習 復習 and 勉強 and consistency! Don’t spent a lot of time deliberating over the book or method you’ll use. Eventually your beginner textbooks will be in the distant past, so as long as they’re adequate I think you’ll be just fine. Also you already bought Genki – use that and supplement where needed, but make sure you’re doing the exercises!
Yeah I do read the explanations in Genki, but the main purpose of the textbook for me is to just provide a structure and an easy way to practice. Sometimes the workbook feels tedious, but I like having so much practice.
That’s all I really think a beginner textbook needs to do. Provide structure, get someone started with being able to use basic sentences, and provide a way to practice what they’ve learned.
For example, this is a series where a guy breaks down basically everything that kids need to learn about grammar in middle school. It’s meant to be a supplement for middle schoolers. It starts with very basic stuff, just the units of language, but it needs to start from there to build up to the complex stuff.
EDIT: Side note… I’m sure you were aware that, as a beginner, a Japanese grammar explanation made for natives in Japanese would probably be impenetrably difficult to follow, but I’m assuming you were just curious what such a video might look like.
Thank you so much :). Yes, I know that with only Genki 1, my Japanese level is pretty low. But I like to look at/listen to different resources. And also, it’s like you said, I was interested in seeing how such a video may look like.
I’ve seen no mention of Human Japanese, so…
Human Japanese!
There are two of them, normal and intermediate.
The iPhone and Android versions are quite cheap and really good.
It’s a textbook so you’ll learn kana, grammar, vocab, and in the intermediate, some kanji. (which I don’t try too hard to remember since I have WK)
All the grammar points have example sentences, not thrown as an indigestible bunch at the end, but shown to you as you follow the lesson.
You can click/tap on them to get full audio, a word by word breakdown and the translation. Then you get quizzed on what you’ve seen to unlock the next chapter.
The explanations are really good, hence the name. I learned Japanese on TextFugu, which I finished and it was great, but starting over with HJ made me understand quite a few things better. The stuff that I didn’t know was as easy to pick up too.
There are also cultural chapters where you learn about Japan.
If you have Genki you should be fine though, but if you want to give HJ a try, both apps have a trial version.
On top of that I use Bunpro. You can use it to add the grammar you’ve studied to the SRS or follow an order like JLPT or Genki.
As stated before, use them all! What’s great about BunPro is you can set your primary text book to Genki and learn with the book, which is what I wish I did before finishing all of N4. It’s a dope setting that makes them work together like peanut butter and chocolate. I’ve never learned from Tae Kim, but the name always comes up. So I guess that a good resource.
I got a friend who is using WK to go for Japanese From Zero, personally. I found George and his wife’s teaching style funny and similar to the path I had in high school for grammar. I think it has helped her a lot. I have books 3 and 4 for brush-up and like them. But yeah, you can also do BunPro. I haven’t used it in a months, but it was interesting. Most of my advanced grammar I am learning more natively by just reading and consuming media, or talking to people and things ‘click’ from within context. It’s not as efficient, but I am pretty immersed.
