霧のむこうのふしぎな町 | Week 17 Discussion 🌬 🏘

Thank you so much! :bowing_woman: I would have never gotten to that conclusion by myself.

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That was not so appealing without knowing which it was at least :sweat_smile:

Could this more specifically be the “provide lodging” meaning of おく?

I should have asked about this before, really, but - why is this mask? And is it supposed to be pursing its lips as if for a dummy, or is it just generally making a sort of puckered grimace? :sweat_smile: also, super hard to parse out those kana if you don’t know that’s what it is.

Same, haha.


Page 193

リナが、そのことをいいだそうとすると、「ああ、わすれていたけど、かさはおいていっておくれよ。」と、ピコットばあさんのほうがさきに口をきった。

I am confused by ほうがさきに口をきった ??!

まだぽけっとしているルナを見ると、ピコットばあさんは、ほんとうにしようがないといった口調で、「まったく、あんたの父親もものわかりのわるい子で、手をやいたもんだが、あんたはそれよりもっとひどいときてる。」

I wrote the whole thing out so as to include the ときてる :eyes:

Anyway, two things - I assume ぽけっと is sort of like ‘dumbfounded, open-mouthed, vacant, confused, dazed’ - but just want to double-check that’s right?

And then I’m not sure what しよう means (in ほんとうにしようがないといった口調).

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I think it’s just saying that ピコットばあさん said it earlier.

Also, both ぼけっと and しようがない have dictionary entries. :eyes:

Oops :see_no_evil: there were so many entries for しよう I didn’t see it.

But it’s ぽけっと, not ぼけっと… Which is why I wanted to check I was right to assume that kind of meaning.

But… when? Does she say it while Rina is trying to think of some other work to do, and then Rina only registers it just as she’s about to argue that she could take Kinu’s job? Because it seems like Pikotto kind of interrupts her thoughts before she can start to say that, but then さきに makes it seem like Rina’s brain only registers a previously-heard statement just as she’s about to start speaking.

Oh, ha. I saw you comment on the likely meaning and my mind was like “oh, well of course ぼけっと means that” :laughing: In that case, I can’t say for sure.

Ah, my mistake. It’s saying that ピコットばあさん cuts in and says that first.

https://jisho.org/word/口を切る

Basically, just as Rina was about to say whatever she was going to say, ピコットばあさん cuts in and says that first.

What’s ぽけ? It’s in the sheet, but there’s no translation.

I’ve kinda rushed today’s reading, but I wasn’t really in the mood for it today (or yesterday). But other than that, yay, finally done! The entire book… done.

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Nice! Congrats on finishing it :grin:

We were just discussing the possible meaning of ぽけっと above.

Don’t forget to update your vote in the poll :wink:

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ぽけっと has its dictionary entry in Japanese dictionaries :thinking: I don’t know about JE dictionaries.

Basically, to be unmoving with a vacant expression. I imagined her with her mouth slightly open.

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Done!

I’m feeling a little lazy about commenting on the book but I’ll try.

Summary

I guess it was what you could expect from a kid’s book. Nothing spectacular but it was cute enough. The best part for me was definitely the experience of reading a book relatively smoothly, since it’s at a level where I know almost all the grammar and most of the vocabulary, so it was a quick read except for a few parts here and there.
I’m actually considering picking up some other kid’s book that seems mildly interesting so that I can do real 多読 for once :sweat_smile:
Overall I enjoyed reading it, and it’s always nice to read alongside a book club even if I didn’t technically participate much.

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Awesome, thank you.


Page 196

おとうさんは、この町がどんなところか知っていたから、わたしに、いってみろ、いってみろって、あんなにいったんだ。

I am not super confident of what’s going on with those いってみろs?

Also… why does she suddenly start talking about her grandad?! Is it just a general “huh I guess adults are actual people with lives who had interesting experiences in the past” revelation, that gets extended to wanting to know more about her grandad too, or her dad’s dad? This felt like it came so far out of left field, to me :sweat_smile:


Page 197

I’m only about halfway through this page, but to start with:

イッちゃんは、さかんに目をしばたたいて、「あっ、ストーブが。」とかいって、二回へかけあがってしまい。。。

I feel like I am being supremely dense here, but what verb is かいって?

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I just interpreted those as ‘go and see (the town for yourself)’, but don’t take my word for it.

I think it was because a bit earlier ピコっトばあさん said that her grandfather was an acquaintance of hers:
「わたしは、あんたのおじいさんと知りあいでね。まったくいい人だったよ。」

I thought this was とか いって, as in… “Said something like ‘Ah, the stove-’”

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OOOOOH. I totally just read that as “your father”, haha :grin: that actually makes a whole lot more sense anyway, given her earlier description of Rina’s dad also being a bit useless, haha.

Ah, that does make sense though.

Thank you!

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My interpretation is that Rina is emphasizing how her dad was very insistent on her going to that town. 「いってみる、いってみる」って => "He (kept saying to me) ‘try going there, try going there’ "

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Yay finished! And this time I only have two questions.

92%

リナは、はたらけるところをあれこれと考えてみて、キムさんの仕事をする人が誰もいないことに気づいた。

Rina tried to think that being able to work is one thing or another, then she realized that there was no one doing Kim’s job.

I understand the meaning of the sentence, but I don’t really understand how the bolded stuff interacts.

94%

私が、朝早いからって ことっわっといた。

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92%

The meaning is a bit different:

はたらける - can work
ところを - place
あれこれと - this way and that
考えてみて tried to think of

She tried to come up with a place where she could work.

94%

ことわっといた - 断って置いた - announced in advance

I told you before that it’s from the early morning.

(BTW please be careful to not make typos ^^)

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I finished it!!!

Only one day late, heh :sweat_smile: I was working really long hours every day this week, so this was the first chance I’ve had :cry:

First, I guess, some musings on the book:

thoughts on the whole book

This was a frustratingly mixed read.

The beginning was made needlessly difficult to read by all the dialect (I realise this is an unfair criticism to throw around when I’m sure it’s fine for native speakers, but I’m approaching this from a learning perspective). I found myself enjoying reading about Rina, whose character I really liked, but wanted to die every time somebody else opened their mouths.

I then really enjoyed the chapters in the middle, when she was working at the bookshop and the ceramics shops. The characters were interesting and the whole idea of a prince having been turned into a plate such that nobody knew where he’d ended up was hilarious to me.

And then I just couldn’t have cared less about the toothache arc, so it was a huge shame for it to finish on that. Plus for some reason I found the last couple of chapters harder, so it was a bit of a slog to the end.

So… as a book for a beginner… this is way harder than 銭天堂 and probably harder than 時をかける少女, purely thanks to the dialect at the beginning and the length. I wanted to love it, but overall it was kind of a mixed bag.

thoughts on this week specifically

I think I just didn’t like Monday (was that the dad? I didn’t like the dad), so didn’t really care about his problems even if the kid was sweet, and then I got confused about the doll and thought that was going to be a more interesting / magical thing (like his wife was trapped in the doll or something, I don’t know) and instead it was just toothache and tedium.

I actually quite liked the end though! I liked the way it wrapped everything up and it was pleasingly bittersweet. Plus I thought the umbrella reveal was really nicely done.

And then, er, I do have some final questions…


Page 198

リナは、長い時間をあるいたとは感じなかった。

Rina didn’t have the feeling she’d been walking for long? (this is just after the break when she sets off)

I don’t understand why it’s とは in the middle there…


Page 199

いつのまにか、あの日あのかさがとばされた霧の谷の町の入り口にいた。

I understand that this means “before she knew it, she was at the entrance to the town of the valley of the mist, which [that umbrella had been sent flying to?] on that day”, but (as you can tell) I’m confused by かさがとばされた - I can’t quite wrap my head around it modifying 霧の谷の街の入り口?


Page 202

I don’t think anybody responded to 2OC’s question?

Sorry if they did and I missed it. Is this saying (and thank you for the kanji, I had いじわるい instead of いじわる, and was wondering what われる meant here :sweat_smile: ) that she is even crying at Pikotto saying mean things? I’m not sure why it’s using that 泣いたことがある construction though.

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Your feelings about each part of the book matches mine pretty closely.


The thing being felt (感じる) can be marked by と. Some examples online use を and others use と. I have no idea when you’d use each. Then maybe は is there for emphasis, but I’m not as sure on that part.


I seems like you got it though? Maybe it’s just there as an excuse to remind you that the umbrella lead her to the entrance. I don’t really remember the context, but maybe the reminder is so you remember why the umbrella is important for when she sees ピコットばあさん gave it to her again.


There were even times where ピコットばあさん said mean things to her and she cried.
(Literally, mean things were said to her by ピコットばあさん, but that sounds weird in English.)

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Maybe I just needed somebody to tell me that that was correct for me to feel confident about it :sweat_smile:

Yeah, it’s the combination I’m a bit thrown by. I’m happy to consider it to be emphasis!

I just feel like it’s a bit weird in context (she’s crying happily at all the nice things she’s been given). Maybe it’s supposed to contrast - she’s crying tears of happiness now, but there were also times when she cried at Pikotto’s meanness. What a varied and rich experience she had!

:grin:

I said it in the home thread already, but thank you again to everybody for all your question answering. It really is super appreciated :purple_heart:

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Thank you for the summary! I also feel the same (except for the dying at the beginning as I did not have thaaat much trouble with the dialect tbh…)

To add to the は discussion, I thought it is there for contrast? As in, the (positive) sentence itself and the “did not feel” contrast each other. But that’s just a guess.

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