霧のむこうのふしぎな町 | Week 11 Discussion 🌬 🏘

Japanese Language Reading
#1

Pages 125 - 136

Chapter 5: 魔法の手助け

Start Date: 29th February
Last Week: Chapter 5.1
Next Week: Chapter 6.1

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We’re reading to the end of Chapter 5 this week!

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霧のむこうのふしぎな町 ・ Mysterious Town Beyond the Mist (BBC) :wind_face: :houses:
霧のむこうのふしぎな町 ・ Mysterious Town Beyond the Mist (BBC) :wind_face: :houses:
霧のむこうのふしぎな町 | Week 12 Discussion :wind_face: :houses:
#2

Oh, I didn’t expect that we wouldn’t get to the resolution of the problem by the end of the chapter. All the previous chapters have been fairly standalone so far.

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#3

This week’s reading has been a challenge for me!

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#4

Oh no :anguished:

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#5

Where’s all the questions? :thinking:

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#6

Still too dizzy from all the ~たらs packed into one paragraph to formulate any. :rofl: I need to reread the lady’s story again more carefully tomorrow. I’m pretty sure I misunderstood parts of it.

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#7

The conversation does traditionally lag behind by one week :grin: I knew I had all of tomorrow to read, so I’ve been putting it off…

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#8

A few questions please meow~!

At 61%

I am a bit confused about the way they refer to what the son been turned into. In the previous week reading we had:

At 60% つぼかさらかが、シッカ、あなたのところにあるらしいの。
I interpreted this to mean a Pot or a Plate (as in, she doesn’t know for sure what he was turned into). か can be used as “or” but as far as I understand, you don’t place か after the last option in the “or” list?

Then at the very last sentence of last week reading, we have a small variation:
At 60% 一生つぼかさらでいなければならないのよ。
Here there’s no か after さら.

However, a bit after that…
At 60% なんとか思いだしてもらったら、とうげでもあまりらんぼうがひどかったので、つぼかさらだったかにかえてしまったっていうじゃありませんか。

I find the だったか even more confusing. Is this supposed to be an embedded question?

A bit later we have two か again:
At 61% わたしの店に、問題のつぼかさらかがあるというのですね。

=@.@=

Any help is appreciated!

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#9
Summary

Yes, that’s the main plot point. She doesn’t know what he has been turned into exactly:)

The だったか is because he can’t remember for sure (which is why she doesn’t know)

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#10

Ah, so on page 125, is she quoting the hermit as saying (paraphrasing) “I’ve never even seen your son before”?

Also I concur with @Voi about being slightly traumatised by all the たらs :dizzy_face:

story thoughts

Also, I realise this would be rather traumatic in reality, but I cannot help cracking up reading all this. Your son got turned into a pot by a forgetful ginger-obsessed hermit who then absentmindedly gave him to a secondhand shop :joy: it feels so much like reading Zenitendou again…

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#11

Exactly.
Just after, when he finally somehow remembers turning the son into a pot or a plate, my first thought was that he was just BSing to get her to go away… but I guess not, since it would make the story a bit disappointing :joy:

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#12

Oh my days. I feel like I suddenly lost all the threads.

Page 126

占いでは、まだこわれていないとでたんです。

What does でたんです mean…?

Page 130

もう一つは、そうだな、リナさんは店にあるひまわりのもようのミルク入れを知ってますね。

I get that he’s talking about a milk container, and that the container either has sunflowers on it or is used to hold sunflowers (I guess?) but I’m honestly not sure about the のもようの bit connecting those two things.

Page 131

This is where I really started to lose the plot :joy:

そのせとものが古いもので、愛情こめてつかわれてきたばあい、そのせとものの感じが、そのまま人間になるんですよ。

“That ceramic is old so, in the state of having been used with a lot of affection, the impression/feeling of that ceramic will become just like that human.” ?

もっとも、それには魔法の粉が一つまみいるんですけどね。

:sob: well, let’s start by asking what まみいる means, and then I can work up from there :joy:

:bowing_man:

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#13

I have some questions too…I’ll start with these.

Translations

５９％

あなた ならせともの に関しては

６１％

リナさん、店へいって、話しかけたらへんじがかかえってきそうだな、と思うものを三つだけ選んできてください。

Rina, go to the shop, if you start a conversation, it seems like the reply will come, please choose from these three things I’ve thought of.

こればっかりは、さすがの発明家も歯がたたないみたいだから。

Best just this, the expected inventor seems to be extremely difficult too.

６２％

たるんできたかみを、 二つにわけてもつと 、ぎゅっとひっぱた。

When the relaxed hair was divided into two, she pulled tight.

６３％

うっすらと青みがかった衣とまとった、真っ白いはだて長いかみの女の人が、 つんとすまして シッカとリナを見ていた。

A woman wearing a slightly bluish robe, a completely white stick and long hair, X and was looking at Shika and Rina.

#14

出る perhaps? She departed? I don’t remember enough of the context (even after looking back) to say for sure.

もよう = 模様

https://jisho.org/word/一撮み

For なら, that’s a conditional grammar point. It is often used with names (or “you”) like あなたなら大丈夫. I can’t really say if that’s the exact usage here since I don’t have more context.

せともの is https://jisho.org/word/瀬戸物.

I think something is wrong with your transcription with かかえってきそう, but I’m not sure where this is in the book to see what it actually is (since I have the physical copy). But here’s what I can tell you. The たら is more like “when” in this case. Also, the と思う is referring to Rina. And instead of choosing from these three things, it’s just “choose three things”.

Basically, “Rina, go to the shop and choose three items that you think are responding to you when you try to talk to them.” This is a somewhat loose translation, but hopefully it helps.

It’s 真っ白い肌で長い髪の女の人. はだ = “skin” and the で acts as a conjunction (I guess that’s the right term?) to the next description.

https://jisho.org/word/つんと澄まして

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#15

I don’t think that makes sense in the context :thinking: but, having thought about it, it could quite possibly be 出る meaning something like “it was pronounced”.

Uggggh. I see so much ようにing and ようなing that I just automatically think it’s that whenever I see a よう.

Ooooh. Well that makes a lot of sense.

Thank you! Now to continue onwards into further bafflement…

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#16

Yes, I interpreted this sentence as “if it’s you (we’re talking about) in relation to ceramics, everyone says that… etc. etc.”

(it’s page 126)

It’s 話しかけたらへんじがかえってきそうだな

(page 131)

I was also baffled by this sentence until you translated it, but as you have, I’ll reverse-engineer in case that’s helpful for anyone else.

We have ものを三つだけ選んできてください at the end: “please choose and bring three things only”.

The “things” (もの) are being modified by と思う, so it’s “things that you think X”.

The part being quoted (X) is 話しかけたらへんじがかえってきそうだな, or to split it up a bit: 話しかけたら へんじ が かえってきそうだな

So we get things where you think “it seems like it’s responding when I talk to it”

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#17

Another radish post! It’s like a “help radish read this book” club :sweat_smile:

Page 131

Right. When シッカ says:

とにかく、わたしの店には、そんなふうな二通りのせとものがおいてあるんですよ。

Is he saying “anyhow, in my shop, there are two ceramics like that”, or is he saying there are two kinds? I thought perhaps he was saying there were two specific ceramics which have that kind of human feeling, and thus if Rina picks out those two plus a third, it’s because the third is the son who’s been turned into a pot? But then I don’t really understand why he would get Rina to do this… unless it’s something to do with her being human…

材料はイッちゃんにたのめばなんとかなるんですが、一か月とろ火でにつめなきゃいけない。

(a) That’s とろ火, right, not とろ火?

(b) Why exactly does he use the conditional たのめば there? I’m not really sure how I’d translate that clause precisely.

I think さすがの発明家 means “even our inventor”. 歯がたたない means “can’t compete with” or “unable to make a dent in (a problem)”, so I think it’s saying that even イッちゃん can’t do anything about that issue (the issue of needing a month to make the ingredient).

I’m not very good at identifying which use of ばっかり is in play, but I think here’s it’s just being used for emphasis. “This, even the inventor can’t get around”.

Finally I just want to point out that おきさきさま is きさき (empress, queen) with an honorific お and the さま title, because I was baffled by this sequence of kana for a good minute :sweat_smile:

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#18

It means that it came out in the 占い (that he wasn’t broken)

Close, but I think this is actually Choose three items which look like they would reply if you spoke to them.

No, he’s referring to the two kinds he already mentioned - one which is described on p130, which is pots and plates which were previously human but were turned into ceramics, and the second type is ceramics which are old and well loved, and which could subsequently turn into a human, although a pinch of magic powder helps the process.

Yes.

“If we asked Icchan for the ingredients we’d (he’d?) be able to manage something, but you need to boil it down for a month over a low flame” is my best guess :sweat_smile:

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#19

Aha!

Oops :see_no_evil:

Ah, I wondered whether it was a throwback to that… But then why does he tell Rina to pick three things? That just seems so random… Does he only have enough ingredients to try it on three?

I already have a load of questions for page 132 as well :sob:

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#20

Ouf, now I think I’m missing out on the English meaning :rofl: Where’s the difference? :thinking: Is it that in Radish’s version Rina actually tries talking to them and judges their (real) responses, versus in your version she is only looking at them and judges what their hypothetical responses might be based on their looks?

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