霧のむこうのふしぎな町 | Week 16 Discussion 🌬 🏘

Pages 179 - 190

Chapter 8: おみやげ

Start Date: 4th April
Last Week: Chapter 7.2
Next Week: Chapter 8.2

霧のむこうのふしぎな町 Home Thread

Last sentence of page 190 for eBook readers:
ピコット屋敷では、ピコットばあさんがいったことは、絶対的な権力をもっていた。


Vocabulary List

Please read the editing guidelines in the first sheet before adding any words!


Discussion Guidelines

  • Please blur out major events in the current week’s pages, and any content from later in the book/series, like this: [spoiler]texthere[/spoiler]

  • When asking for help, please mention the page number (or % for eBooks).

  • To you lurkers out there: join the conversation, it’s fun!


Participants

Mark your participation status by voting in this poll:

  • I’m reading along
  • I’m still reading but haven’t reached this part yet
  • I’m dropping this book

0 voters

If you’ve read it before but will join in the discussion (or have read ahead), please select “I’m reading along”!


1 Like

I think the Last Week link for Chapter 7.2 is incorrectly pointing to topic 42292 instead of 42797…

3 Likes

Can I do nothing right this week?! Was even thinking to myself “better get that link to last week right this time…”

Thanks for the catch :+1:

2 Likes

Last chapter

Edit:

4 Likes

87% – 「親子して歯がいたいのに、だれがめんどうみるんですか。」

The みる part is confusing me – what is it doing here?
Also is the translation something like “Who cares for my parents and children who have toothaches?” ?

Edit: 88% – 「こんなとき、マンデーのいってたもの知りの小人でもいればたすかるのに。」

Having a hard time understanding this sentence. “At a time like this, Monday’s so-called knowing dwarf could help me if he was here”? What about the のに?

「すると、ジェントルマンが、テーブルの上に音もたてずにとびのった。」

How do you parse this part? 音も.立てずに.飛び乗った ← like that?

めんどうみる means “to take care of someone”. The father and the child both have toothache, who’s going to look after them?

こんなとき => at a time like this
マンデーの => Mandee’s
いってた => said, mentioned
もの知り => knowledgeable, well-informed
小人 => dwarf
でも => or something similar (in this case, or someone similar)
いれば => if it existed (were here)
たすかる => is helpful
のに => If only / I wish (see 3rd meaning in jisho)

Putting these together:

At a time like this, if only that knowledgeable dwarf that Mandee mentioned (or someone else similar) were here, it would be so helpful.

Yes, those are the kanji’s that I though went there too, and how I separated the words.

4 Likes

Thank you for doing such a meticulous job!

And it means “Gentleman jumped up on the table without a sound”?

3 Likes

Yes, that’s how I’d translate that sentence :slight_smile: The も in 音も would give it bit of more emphasis “without even making a sound”.

5 Likes
p186

「でも、タマには、やさしくてたよりがいのあるご主人がいるじゃないの。」
W-what happened here (bolded part)?

Nvm, figured it out. It’s: 「でも、タマには、優しくて頼りがいのある御主人がいるじゃないの。」

4 Likes
91%

「遠くへもいけないもんだから、ピコット屋敷においてもらっていたの。」
Which of the many synonyms could this おいて be? It’s にいて, isn’t it? But what’s the もらう doing here? :thinking:

Edit: 「でも、きのうこの子のことが気になって、いてもたってもいられないできてみると、人形はもとどおりでしょう。」
I don’t get this part.

Edit 2: Finished this week’s reading, yay!

1 Like

So, this いて refers to the meaning “to take in (boarders, etc.); to provide lodging in one’s house” (see meaning 7 in jisho).

The てもらう is the grammar construct to express having someone do something for the speaker (Tae-Kim link, bunpro link).

So basically this means: “I couldn’t go far away, so I had the Pikotto Mansion take me in”

My understanding is the following:

いてもたってもいられない is a set phrase that means “unable to contain oneself; itching to do something; cannot sit still” (literally: ‘cannot exist staying nor standing’ )

で => particle

きてみると => This comes from 来てみる as in “trying coming (here)”

人形はもとどおり => もとどおり means “as before, as it was originally”

Putting this all together:

When I tried coming here because I couldn’t stand still, the doll was (restored) to how it was before, right?

4 Likes

Done with this just in time!

I did not see that coming but I’m glad it wasn’t as sad as anticipated. I didn’t remember キヌさん was supposed to be a woman so at first I was like… 妻?? :face_with_monocle: Not sure what to think about that fight, though.

And I have some questions:

Page 188

妻が、いやがるサンデーにむりに字をおしえたことからけんかになってしまってね。
Not sure how to interpret the いやがる there. Feels like a weird place to put it and I’m not sure if it refers to サンデー or to what, since it’s right before it but I don’t see how that makes sense. Maybe to the action itself? No clue.

And in that same dialogue:
例の虫歯はいたむやら、暑い日で、指にあせをかいて、オルゴールの細工はうまくいかない、妻やサンデーの声は神経にさわるといった調子で、かあっとしてしまいましてね。
Is that 虫歯 unrelated to the current situation? Or is this a common occurrence in this family? (Or am I misinterpreting something?)

The description of the fight was the hardest part to understand, maybe because it seems a little absurd and over the top?

Looking forward to getting to the end (bottom?) of this.

3 Likes
Question 1

いやがる refers to Sunday (the disliking Sandy / Sunday who dislikes it).

All together: The wife’s unsuccessful (attempt of) teaching reading/writing to the unwilling Sunday unfortunately turned into a quarrel.

Note: The Japanese doesn’t say „attempt“ but „thing/occurrence“.

5 Likes

I’m so sorry for all my questions on this part. I just found the whole thing really hard to follow. At the beginning it felt like Rina was jumping around all over the place - one minute talking to this person, the next apparently back at the house - which made it really confusing to me.

Page 181

これは、タマにサンデーのおもりをおしつけたリナにも責任がある。

This is Rina thinking in response to Shika’s revelation that Tama seems to have toothache.

I’m a bit confused about who is foisting babysitting of whom onto whom here :sweat_smile: but I realise that Rina is realising she is somewhat responsible for this happening too.


Page 182

This is the part where it felt she she was flitting about all over the shop. Anyway.

リナが、「いいご主人ね。」というと、タマはほこらしげに、とららしく、ウオーと大きくほえた。

Is とららしく “like a tiger” / “appropriately for a tiger” etc? I found it a bit weird with とら in hiragana.

算数の問題からときにかかった。

What does this mean? I understand the words but not the sentence.


Page 185

もの音がするのでふりむくと、シッカにつれられてタマがはいってきた。

I don’t understand why it’s つれられて here rather than つれられた? Isn’t it a relative clause describing Tama as ‘brought along by Shika’?


Page 187

「なんてお礼をいったらいいかわからないくらいです。」

I think Monday is saying something like he doesn’t know what would be a good way of saying thank you to Rina, but then I don’t understand how the くらい fits in (or if I’m even right). This is after he invites her to eat with them in celebration because it’s all thanks to her.


Page 188

「例の虫歯はいたむやら、暑い日で、指にあせをかいて、オルゴールの細工はうまくいかない、妻やサンデーの声は神経にさわるといった調子で、かあっとしてしまいましてね。」

(Monday describing the fight)

I second Sylph’s query - is this talking about his “usual toothache”, and we are to understand that this is something that happens frequently because of his candy-munching habit?

Also, does it say at the end that he lets out a ‘caw’ sound? In frustration, I assume?

「妻にあたってしまったんですよ。」

Is this saying he confronted her? Oh wait, it’s intransitive - does she confront him, presumably to ask why he’s yelling?

(this was a rough page)

「わたしは、サンデー自身のために字をおぼえてもらいたくていっしょうけんめいだったのに。」

(Kinu speaking)

I’m confused by who is いっしょうけんめいing. Kinu wants Sunday to learn his letters for the sake of his own self-confidence, but then is it Kinu trying her hardest to teach him? So it’s like “even though I was just trying really hard to do something for the sake of our child, he called me an old hag”?


Page 189

「しかっても、おだててもだめだから、いまにとるだろうとほうっておいたら。。。」

(Monday talking)

Just don’t understand what いまにとるだろうとほうっておいたら means.


Page 190

お面さえしていなかったら、すぐキヌさんとサンデーが親子だとわかったものを。。。

I just don’t understand さえして? I realise it’s saying that now that he has taken off his mask she can see that they are parent and child, but for some reason I can’t work out the verb. My brain is a fog :pensive:

If anyone can help with any of them that would be awesome. There were quite a few more I worked out as I typed them up :sweat_smile:

1 Like

OK let’s see how far I can get :slight_smile:

Page 181

About the babysitting:

タマに - indirect object (onto whom) - Tama
サンデーのおもりを - direct object (what) - babysitting of Sunday
おしつけた - forced
リナ - noun that gets modified by all of the above: Rina

All together: Rina, who had forced the babysitting of Sunday onto Tama

Page 182

a) Yes, it means like a tiger.

b) Hm, don’t have the book with me, so I don’t really know about the second half (the first half says “from the arithmetic problem” but I guess you had no issues with that, right?)

Page 185

I think it’s just a different way of expressing this: “Tama was taken along by Shikka and then entered” vs. “Tama, who had been taken along by Shikka, entered”. :woman_shrugging:

Page 187

くらい also has the meaning of “to the extent” or “so that” (in that regard it’s very similar to ほど). So something like “it is to the extent that I did not know what would be a good way of thanking you” or so :thinking:
I usually kinda ignore this as it does not add substantially to the meaning.

Sorry, I need to run for now! Will continue later if nobody else replied in the meantime.

2 Likes

Thank you :blush:

Awesome, thank you. I was too frazzled to work out which was which :sweat_smile:

Yeah, it was more the ときにかかる part (and how it relates to 算数の問題から, I guess).

Oh. I see :see_no_evil: I think having Tama in the middle of the two verbs completely threw me, haha.

Fair enough. I usually ignore it as well, tbh - but there were quite a number of くらい sentences in this section where the meaning made explicit sense to me, so I thought maybe I could work this one out too :sweat_smile: I’m happy to just accept it and move on though.

2 Likes

OK, I’m back, so let’s see about the remaining bits:

Page 188

Yes, I agree that it’s the “usual toothache”. Iirc Monday mentioned before that they need to eat the sweets in order to make good toys, and it seems they get toothache each time…

Also, for the sound, not sure whether it’s actually a cawing sound or whether it’s more like when you hold your breath and then suddenly let it out with a sound, that might also be described as “kaa”? But no idea. Let’s agree on a disapproving sound :wink:

妻にあたって - yes, confronted by the wife. After all, she’s the one who throws a tantrum.

Kinu’s sentence:

わたしは、- I
サンデー自身のために - for Sunday’s sake (this is not “self-confidence”, by the way, but “oneself”)
字を - reading/writing
おぼえて - to remember
もらい - to do for me
たくて - wanted to
いっしょうけんめいだったのに。- that was very strong

I put this together as: “I strongly wanted him to remember reading/writing for his own sake.”
I interpret this as her becoming aware of this being a selfish act after all (as she wanted him to learn). Curious to hear what the others think!

Page 189

いまに - before long
とる - this verb has so incredibly many meanings that I cannot translate that without context, sorry (edit: to remove)
だろう - I guess
と - quotation?
ほうっておい - to leave alone / to neglect (放って置く)
たら - if

OK, you got me, I had to pull out the book ^^ So he is talking about Sunday and his stubbornness in wearing the mask for more than 3 weeks (yuck!). So,
"No matter whether I scolded him or fluttered him, it was no use, therefore (I thought) “He will take it off soon, I guess, so if I leave him alone…”

Page 190

お面 - the mask
さえ - only
してい - to wear (する)
なかったら - had not

If only he had not worn the mask, she would have quickly known that Kinu and Sunday are mother and child.

Edit: I checked page 182 again and came across https://jisho.org/search/罠にかかる - this would be the only use of に + かかる I could find, meaning “to be trapped in” - so she was trapped in time, meaning it took a lot of time, I guess?

2 Likes

She is?! Haha! I initially thought he was confronting her over making such a ruckus arguing with Sunday, so it was only when I realised it was intransitive that I realised it was the other way round. Fair enough with かあ :wink: I wanted to ask because Jisho is so specific about it being the cawing of a crow :joy:

Oops. It was in the vocab sheet as 自信, so I think my wires got crossed somewhere.

Sorreee, hehe ^^

Thanks, I don’t think I would have been able to put that together on my own. Too many bitty words.

Same goes for Page 190 :+1:

Makes sense to me!

Danke schön!

1 Like

Isn’t she? I mean, she runs away and hides for more than three weeks, so I figured she would be the angry one…
(that was without direct context, just with my memory, so sorry if I was wrong here!)

Those nasty homophones, tststs :slight_smile: Together with a keen IME they can really wreak havoc…

Gern geschehen!

Ah, I mean - I think she’s having an argument with Sunday, but then when she confronts Monday (over his noises of complaint) he is the one who starts calling her names and breaks her figurine and so on. Which is why she then takes off.

I think :see_no_evil:

Thank you so much for all of your detailed help. So far I seem to have fewer questions for the final week :sweat_smile:

1 Like