霧のむこうのふしぎな町 | Week 15 Discussion 🌬 🏘

Japanese Language Reading
#1

Pages 165 - 178

Chapter 7: お面をとらない男の子

Start Date: 28th March
Last Week: Chapter 7.1
Next Week: Chapter 8.1

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We’re reading to the end of Chapter 7 this week!

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霧のむこうのふしぎな町 ・ Mysterious Town Beyond the Mist (BBC) :wind_face: :houses:
霧のむこうのふしぎな町 ・ Mysterious Town Beyond the Mist (BBC) :wind_face: :houses:
#2

Last week link is misnamed.

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#3

Page 165

It’s one long sentence :sweat_smile:

マンデーの店へかよいはじめてから三日めの朝、くるとちゅうでトケの店へよってくれといわれたのを思いだしたリナは、いつもは通らない西がわの木戸からでてみようと思った。

Have I got the middle bit right? -

“Rina, having remembered that she was told “stop by Toke’s shop on your way for me”…”

Also am I the only one who could not for the life of me remember who Toke was until reading on? :sweat_smile:

Page 166

あの舌の感触に、リナは閉口していた。

What’s the best definition for 閉口 here? At her wit’s end? Annoyed?

うつくしいものを見たあとのしあわせな気持ちで、リナはますますしあわせな気分にさせてくれるお店へはいっていった。

(1) I’m a bit confused by 見たあと here - "the happy feeling after seeing beautiful things?

(2) Then in the second part, it describes Rina’s mood becoming progressively happier, but I don’t understand why (a) the causative (?) is used, or (b) why it looks like this is modifying お店?

Page 168

いつかリナにキャンデーをくれた小鬼がいて、やきたてのパンみたいにまるまるとした女の人に、なにか指さしていた。

Why is the particle に used after 女の人 here?

「夏は、朝のうちに仕事をしないと。。。」

This is Toke’s husband speaking.

Is he saying “in the summer, if we don’t work in the morning…”? Not 100% confident which meaning of うち is relevant here.

:bowing_man:

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#4

:+1: I probably wouldn’t bother translating the くれ to “for me” personally though.

Having finished the book, I have no idea who Toke is.

I think your understanding is fine.

She entered the shop that makes her even happier. Or something like that since I’m not sure if that’s the best way to translate ますます.

しないと = “have to”. So in the summer they have to work in the morning. (Are they talking about the heat being overbearing or something? I don’t have any context.) Of course, I think your interpretation could be correct too if there’s an implied “something bad” after the しないと or if there’s more you left out.

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#5

No, I wouldn’t normally… I’m struggling to strike the right balance between literal and natural when posting translations for checking purposes…

Well that makes me feel much better, thanks :rofl: for anyone reading along equally confused as us, Toke’s shop is the sweet shop!

Ah, I see - I should have followed my confusion to the natural conclusion! I think when I first read it I thought she’d entered the toy shop, and then forgot to recalibrate the context once I’d realised it was the sweet shop.

It’s just when Toke’s husband first appears and is like “oh hey, I’m melting butter, sorry, gotta go”. So I think one could infer a number of reasons they have to work in the morning, whether that be heat, a rush of customers…

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#6

Because the 小鬼 is pointing something out TO the lady who looks like a freshly baked bun

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#7

Also, that’s such a mean way to describe someone. (Even if no one said it out loud!)

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#8

I found this definition in Japanese: 「 打つ手がなくて困ること 」という意味です。自分の力ではどうにも出来ず、途方に暮れていることを指します
Rina doesn’t enjoy being licked by Tama, but there is nothing she can do about it.
So I guess at her wit’s end would work. (I can’t think of anything better but maybe someone else can).

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#9

Why could my brain not come up with this explanation?!

No that’s perfect, thanks - I think “at your wit’s end” captures that pretty well. Presumably she has tried to dissuade Tama from licking her, or at least thought he would stop after a few times, but now she just doesn’t know what to do.

Oh, I thought it made her sound rather nice, haha! I was imagining a plump lady who sort of smells of dough and gives nice hugs :joy:

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#10

Thank you for your translation, I understand better this sentence now, but I still don’t understand why they would use でて(出る?). Does it mean: I should try to go out, she thought. ? Why go out, isn’t she outside?

#11

Nope, it’s the morning and she’s about to head out :slightly_smiling_face: what’s your understanding of the sentence?

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#12

I see! I thought she was in front of Toke’s shop.

#13

That is 100% what I thought when I first read it :sweat_smile:

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#14

Thank you for clarifying! :blush:

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#15

p166 –
うごく ー to move
うごきたい ー to want to move
うごきたくない ー to not want to move
うごきたくなくない ー ???
うごきたくなくなった ー ??? + past

#16

うごく ー to move
うごきたい ー to want to move
うごきたくない ー to not want to move
うごきたくなくなる ー to become not wanting to move
うごきたくなくなった ー became not wanting to move

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#17

p171/2? – それでも、マンデーたちは、リナのいうことをきこうともしないで食べつづける。

Why is a volitional here? How do you parse this after きこう? と.もしない.で? とも.しないで?

#18

My understanding is that this is using a volitional because it is part of the grammar construct ようとしない (Bunpro link, LearnJapanese link).

This indicates a volition, as in the will not to do something. In this case:

リナの いうこと => The thing(s) Rina is saying.
きこうともしない => not even willing to listen. The も here is for emphasis (the even in my translation).
で 食べつづける => continued eating (without willing to listen to what Rina was saying)

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#19

There’s a lot going on with this one. @2OC3aOdKgwSGlxfz pretty much covered everything as I was typing, but I’ll post anyway in case it helps.

聞こうとする = “to try/attempt to listen”
も = “even”
する --> しないで = “without doing”

So リナのいうことをきこうともしないで is “without even trying to listen to what Rina said”.

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#20

I feel like several people have managed to catch up this week!

I don’t know whether it’s just tiredness - I’ve been sleeping exceptionally poorly over the last week or two - but I’m finding this week’s reading quite a grind to get through. I’ve noted down so many more questions than usual.

Plus story-wise, I’m interested in why the kid won’t take his mask off, but the whole eating too many sweets and getting tooth-ache plot just seems very predictable and boringly low-stakes. I really enjoyed chapters 4 - 6, so I think it’s just a bit disappointing in contrast to that. Maybe the payoff will be worth it.

Anyway.

Page 169

[そうしてください」
というと、マンデーのとはべつのふくろにいれて、にじ色のリボンをかけてくれた。

The マンデーのとは べつのふくろに part - is that と included in のとは as a contrastive with べつの, indicating the thing it’s separate/different from? (I realise it’s talking about using a different bag for Rina’s sweets). For some reason I would have thought it would be a に :thinking:

Page 170

「ちがわい。ぼくの知ってる小人がー知ってるうちでいちばん小さいんだけどね。お茶を飲むのにくるみのからをつかってるからさ。」

(1) Is there anything more interesting to ちがわい than it being a weird way of saying ちがう(よ)?

(2) I’m sorry, I feel like like I’m being really lazy, but I just have no idea what he’s saying after that. I get that he wants to buy a tea set for the dwarves (dwarf?) he knows, but what does 知ってるうちで mean? “Within my knowledge”, like as far as he knows, or amongst the people he knows? It feels pretty unnecessary to tell somebody that the dwarves you’re friends with are short? Like, duh? What does くらみのから mean?

そばかすのういた顔が、くしゃとちぢこまると、ものすごくかわいくなる。

What is ういた? I know it’s describing him as having a freckly face, but I can’t work out that verb. Are freckles said to ‘float’ on a face?

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