銭天堂 | Week 10 Discussion

Oooops, nearly forgot to ask my (many) questions for this week. What a tragedy that would have been for everyone :stuck_out_tongue:

Definitely agree with @Kyayna that it was only the first few pages which were a bit intense though.


Page 96

自分が上にいけないのも、人からきらわれるのも、みんな自分以外のだれかのせいにしてしまうのだ。

みんな自分以外のだれか is basically ‘anybody but [her]self’, right? My main question is quite what 自分が上にいけない means - I thought at first it was talking about her being superior, but is it actually talking about the fact that she hasn’t advanced (“not able to go up”)?


Page 97

これじゃ、缶ジュースでがまんするしかない。

I’m a bit confused - is this the “there is nothing but” meaning of しかない? So [with this 小銭], there is no choice but juice? I’m not clear quite what がまんする means in this context though.

とことんしけている、と典行はなさけなくなった。

Does しけている here mean she’s thoroughly broke, or thoroughly glum?


Page 98

so many questions from page 98 halp

いかにもはやっていなさそうな、古ぼけた店。

What… does いなさそう mean?

声さえきこえたような気がした。

What does that さえ bring to the sentence?

その魅力にはさからえず、典行は店に近づいていった。

What does さからえず mean?

After she finishes looking at all the sweets, the last sentence ends with というのも、すてがたい - what does すてがたい mean?!

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My understanding is the same as yours: “(himself) not being able to ascend”.

Yes, I believe “there’s nothing but” is the meaning of しかない here.

缶ジュースでがまんする => In this case “がまんする” would mean “have to endure with”. Combining that with しかない we have “There’s nothing (to do), but to endure (the situation) with (just) a can of juice”… there’s probably a more natural way to say that in english by my tired friday brain is not responding very well at the moment…

My understanding is that はやっていなさそう comes from:

はやる => to be popular
はやっている => being popular
はやっていない => not being popular

This then gets combined with the そう grammar point (it appears that, it seems that). In that grammar point, you remove the い at the end of i-adjectives and ない verbs, and for verbs you can optionally add さ in casual speech (sorry if this is confusing… check the link for a more complete and clearer explanation if you are not familiar with this grammar)

はやっていなさそう => does not appear to be popular.

さえ means “even”. So in this case “Even had the feeling that (he) could hear a voice” is my understanding of that sentence.

さからえず comes from a grammar point that means “without doing”

さからう => to go against
さからえる => to be able to go against.
さからえず => without being able to go against

がたい is the rendaku’ed version of かたい, meaning “hard”. You can add this to the stem of a verb to mean that something is hard to do. すてがたい => hard to discard, hard to give up.

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One minor thing. I think the verb here is 流行る(はやる)rather than やる. Usually it means something popular or in fashion, but I think with stores it means that they have a lot of customers and are doing well. In this case, he’s saying 銭天堂 is an old-fashioned store that seems like it doesn’t have any customers (which he doesn’t realize is because only select customers can find it).

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Oops, you are totally right. I edited my previous post to avoid confusion. Thanks for pointing it out!

I went with “popular” though I guess “thrive” could be a better translation? hmmmm…

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I think popular works fine here!

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:+1:

No that’s perfect, thanks - I just could not make my brain put it together in a way that made sense. I was kind of reading がまんする as ‘to be patient’, and “the only choice is juice to be patient with” just didn’t really make much sense!

Thank you! I think that was the part which was throwing me off. I didn’t realise (somehow? I’ve basically forgotten all Japanese in the last six months) that you add さそう for negative form rather than just そう. I should really have guessed the grammar point from knowing よい -> よさそう though.

(I don’t think it’s “optional” though - it looks like that just is the construction for negative form, whether verb or adjective)

Is there a face-palm emoji? Or a head-desk emoji? There should be a head-desk emoji.

Aaah, I just couldn’t work out the verb, thank you!

Wow, I literally don’t think I’ve ever come across this before. Thank you again!

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Okay, final few questions from this week’s reading if anybody has the time to take a look :bowing_man:

Page 100

おれに足りなかったもの。

Just wanted to double-check, because of the negatives - 足りない being “insufficient” makes this “sufficient to me”, right?

Page 103

店の常連の金持ちマダムが、カウンターで受け付けしているところだった。

I’m a tad confused by the use of 受け付け as a する verb here. Jisho has the する verb of the word as ‘receipt; acceptance’, but I’m not quite clear what the customer is receiving or accepting?! Is this used to mean generally “being served at a counter / reception desk”?

Page 106

あのすばらしいセンスのカットをされた美容師さんが、ここにいらっしゃるとうかがったんですけど!

I’m not totally clear on the grammar in that second part. Is the second verb うかがう being used with と as a quotation particle, and the reporter is saying that they heard the fabulous hair stylist was here?

Also, thank you to whoever worked out ほめたたえる and added it to the sheet!

Normally, I think it would mean something like “the thing(s) I lacked”: ore ni tari-na-katta mono.

Second question I’m not sure about the usage of 受付… I’ll leave that to someone with more reading experience and/or context. It’s not grammar anyway, so I’ll pass. :stuck_out_tongue:

I think that’s reasonable; could be other parses / interpretations, but yours seems plausible to me.

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I did find this where in some of the answers, 受付する seems to be used in the same sense as “to check in at reception” or “to sign in at reception.” I also find a lot of references to 受付する meaning the same. I wonder if it’s a thing to drop the particle? In any case, from context, it definitely seems like she’s checking in, rather than receiving anything.

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A native speaker friend said in this context it means “glum/gloomy”. When I asked him if it could mean “broke”, he looked at me like I said something really stupid and said with a frown, “…broke じゃない.” lol

He said in this context it means “hard to decide”

ALC gives an example of this in
どちらも捨て難い
“be hard to choose between the two”

So when Noriyuki is looking at different candies, he’s saying “it’s hard to decide/choose (which one)”

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Aaah, that makes a lot more sense in context, thank you!

:joy: thank you for the answers to grammar questions!

You have no idea how excited I am to have realised this on my own :sweat_smile: I never realise when と is being used as a quotation particle, and I was wracking my brains for ages trying to think what could possibly be going on grammar-wise here ^^

Cool, thank you for looking into it! It seems like a totally reasonable usage to me, but I wanted to make sure I hadn’t missed anything as it didn’t quite seem to align with what the dictionary was giving me.

:joy: okay, glum it is!

Ah okay, gotcha.

Thank you all for your help! It’s much appreciated as always.

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