銭天堂 | Week 11 Discussion

Japanese Language Reading
#1

Week 11 Discussion | Pages 107 - 117

Chapter 5: カリスマボンボン

Start Date: 13th July
Last Week: Chapter 5 Part 1
Next Week: Chapter 6 Part 1

Zenitendou

銭天堂 Home Thread

We’re reading to the end of Chapter 5 this week.

Part of the Beginner Book Club!

Vocabulary List

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銭天堂 ・ Zenitendou, The Mysterious Sweet Shop! (Beginner Book Club)
#2

I’ve made it to the picture in the physical book, and just a couple of questions so far.

I’ve also realised that I totally misinterpreted that picture when flipping through the book last week - I thought it was a picture of a (repentant?) Noriyuki with their stressed-out manager talking to Beniko, when in fact Noriyuki is the one who has become a manager! Guess I never anticipated their career would explode quite as much as depicted!

I also feel like a little kid when they realise their teacher exists and has a life outside of the school - Beniko-san has left the shop!

Page 107

こんなにおいしいことはなかった

Just want to check my understanding - “that [voicing any complaint] was not an attractive prospect”?

カリスマボンボンの効果がつづいているかぎり、なにをやってもゆるされる。

“The limits of the Charisma Bon Bon continuing to work”, but then not sure what that second part means?

Page 110

ものやわらかな声音には、ずくりと心臓にくいこむような重みがあった。

Just not sure what ずくり means? I get what the sentence means anyway, but I’m enjoying learning all these mimetic words :blush:

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#3

I think it rather says that she never had such a convenient thing (nobody complaining about anything, and so on) happen to her.
The ことはない means “that never happened (before)”.

かぎり is a grammar point meaning “as long as”
So the first part means “As long as the bonbon continues to have an effect”
For the second part:
ゆるされる is the passive form of ゆるす, meaning “will be forgiven / tolerated”

“No matter what I do, it will be tolerated”


I was actually surprised to see that the main character was a girl - I somehow imagined her male all along.

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#4

Oh, that makes sense. Cheers.

Oooh, that makes much more sense. I was thinking it must be “to forgive / allow”, but then that didn’t make sense with what I had for the first part. Thank you!

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#5

I have to say - I was like Radish - until the last page :joy:. And there are SO many clues, and I managed to ignore all of them until the last line of the chapter!

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#6

Wait now I think I got confused xD I forgot the actual gender already and was influenced by everyone talking about “her” in the threads here… but I also remember being really surprised about the gender “reveal” at the end somehow. So maybe I was thinking the same as you all along.

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#7

For me, I thought he was male the entire time because I just watched Bokutachi wa Benkyou ga Dekinai recently, and the main character in that is named Nariyuki, so Noriyuki read as a male name for me (in fact, I kept accidentally reading 典行 as “Nariyuki” over and over again.)

On the other hand, I thought the character from the ice cream story was male until the picture, since I thought of Mikki as “Micky.”

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#8

I had a hard time trying to figure out this one out so I asked a native speaker and he said ずくり is probably a variation of ずっしり which he says fits together with 重み or 重い.

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#9

Some thoughts on this chapter:

I think this was my least favourite chapter so far D: I really loved reading about what an arse the MC was in the first half, but found the second half a bit underwhelming. This was perhaps because there wasn’t really a dramatic / magical climax to the chapter; rather than any ill-effects from the bon bon, he just eats another sweet which will cause people to see him for what he is. Where were the biscuit animals and bucket sharks?!

Also, although I was glad that he got his comeuppance, especially given that he was a poop towards whatever-her-name-was-I-don’t-have-the-book-to-hand, I was actually quite saddened that she never got to eat her sweet and enjoy her deserved rewards for not only rescuing the cat but also generally for her hard work.

I’m also wondering at this point whether we’ll get any insight into the nature of the shop, or its proprietor, before the end of the book. I haven’t finished chapter 3 but so far the book has shown very little interest in exploring the shop itself. I assume not, because it doesn’t seem like the point, but it would be cool if we did!

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#10

Well, you knew that Noriyuki’s popularity wasn’t going to last forever so how it would come to an end I think was cleverly written by the writer. Instead of the usual Oh-I-didn’t-read-the-instructions-carefully scenario, there’s an unexpected twist by Beniko-san showing up at Noriyuki’s salon.

In her sly way, I think Beniko-san gave the 実力bonbon to Misuzu in such a way that Noriyuki would take notice. Due to his own insecurity, he couldn’t resist taking the bait which ended up undermining his own fame and exposed his true character. Only after he ate this second bonbon did the Oh-I-didn’t-read-the-instructions-carefully occur.

And, yea, it’s too bad Misuzu didn’t get her reward but I didn’t think that the bonbon was intended for her in the first place.

So I agree this chapter seems less exciting compared to others but I think the writer is trying to tell kids that having lots of fame and popularity doesn’t necessarily equate with having good character. I think the writer makes this point without being preachy about it. So from that standpoint, though not the most exciting chapter, I think there’s a lot that kids can learn and this one so far sends the strongest message.

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#11

Omg I started reading the thread before I finished the chapter and you guys confused me so much with the gender conversation xD
I ended up “spoiling” myself because I had to confirm that Noriyuki is indeed a man.
Which was what I thought the whole time, until this thread :joy:

Some overall thoughts on the chapter

I agree that the end felt a bit…anticlimactic? (Although I don’t have much to compare it to - I kind of fell off the wagon so I haven’t read any other chapters besides this one and the first one yet.) I still enjoyed it overall, though. Like trout, I also got the sense that Beniko came to the hair salon to give Misuzu the sweet precisely because she knew Noriyuki wouldn’t be able to resist taking it and eating it. She wanted him to eat it, because she saw how well he was doing and knew he didn’t really deserve a happily-ever-after xD All-seeing, all-knowing Beniko :crystal_ball::sparkles::eyes: Love it.

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#12

Hmm, it’s true that I did appreciate a change from the usual “oops I didn’t read the instructions” narrative, and I agree that Beniko was purposefully setting him up. I still felt like Misuzu deserved such a reward though, so it was kind of bittersweet.

Noriyuki was a bit of an idiot anyway :joy: or at least I felt there was a slight plothole. Given that the effects of the first bon bon hadn’t shown any signs of wearing off yet, why did he immediately stuff the new bon bon in his face? The whole reason for his unease was that he didnt know how long they last, so it would make much more sense to keep the second in reserve rather than scoffing it. Maybe he was worried about it melting ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@windupbird Sorry for confusing you so :joy:

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#13

Sorry for confusing you

Wanikani forums, confusing you since 2014.

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#14

I just have a few more questions before moving on to chapter 6. I actually found the last page pretty confusing, possibly because it took me a minute to realise he was speculating on what would now happen, rather than the book literally narrating what did happen… right?!

Page 113

「客からものをもらうなんて、百年早いんだよ。

What on earth does 百年早い mean?! “It’s a hundred years too early for you to be receiving gifts from customers”? Like she’s still such a crappy low-down hairdresser that she’s years away from getting thank you gifts?

Page 116

こんな髪型で何万もとるなんて、どういうつもり？

What does 何万もとる mean here?

Page 117

もう、どうあってもとめられない。

Is this like… whatever the situation, it can no longer be stopped?

思うままにふるまい、人のてがらを自分のものにし、鼻高々にらくをしてきた報いを、たっぷり受けることになるのだ。

Can somebody help me to break this sentence down? I am seriously not clear how it all fits together.

individual phrases

思うまま = as one pleases; to one’s heart’s content
ふるまい = behaviour

So 思うままにふるまい = behaving as I like?

人のてがら = people’s achievements
自分のもの = my thing

にし is presumably the particle に with the stem of する, so this is like “making other people’s achievements my own”? Then it all gets more hazy…

鼻高々に = proudly; triumphantly
らく = is like easy; comfortable, but I don’t quite understand its usage with する, or how this is modifying 報い - “reward that proudly comes easily”? I guess the 鼻高々 is not necessarily exclusively part of the relative clause, but could just be attached to that phrase as a whole. “Triumphantly received the ample rewards that came effortlessly”?

[it had become the case that] “Behaving as he liked, he took other’s achievements as his own and triumphantly received the rewards that came without any trouble on his part.”

BUT

Is 報い the positive (reward) or negative (retribution) meaning here though? The sentence is written in the present tense, which makes me think it’s more along the lines of “will receive ample punishment”… I can’t fit that together with the rest of the sentence though, so presumably I’m overthinking it!

週刊誌やワイドナショーのさわぎが、今から見えるような気がした。

Eh? One of those “I understand every word but don’t understand the sentence” situations :sweat_smile:

He had a feeling that from now the uproar of gossip magazines etc. would… become visible?! Or is it more a fancy way of saying “to come”, like “he had a feeling the uproar of gossip outlets was coming”?

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#15

I think you interpreted it just fine.

All these sentences when he gets back to the customers are complaints because they finally see him for what he is.
So I think this complaint with the 何万 is about the price, and とる then probably means something like “asking for” or “earning”.
“Asking for tens of thousands for this sort of haircut?”

Yep. どうあっても also has its own entry, but you already got it right.

I actually think it’s the negative meaning of 報い. Since the sentence ends on ことになる, which is not past tense, it’s about what is coming for him from now on, basically.

Regarding the 楽をする: sadly jisho doesn’t have en entry for that, but here is one from a jp-jp thesaurus. For the meaning it states “面倒くさがってやるべきことをやらない”
And as synonyms it lists things like 怠ける, 怠る, サボる.
So I would interpret the “鼻高々にらくをする” as being proud of doing nothing, being lazy.

Everything before 報い is modifying it, and it’s all verbs (ふるまい is ふるまう and にし is にする).
The punishment is for all these actions; for (behaving as he liked), (making other people’s achievements his own), and (being proud of not doing much and being lazy).

Then we only have the second part left: たっぷり受けることになる
I think this is pretty straightforward: He will receive it (the punishment) plenty. And that is already decided because he already ate the bonbon.

This ties into the sentences before: カリスマ美容師の正体、あばかれる。弟子のデザインを盗用。おどろくべき実態。
Those are the headlines already floating around in his head.
And the sentence after is simply “he feels like he can already see what the magazines and talkshows are going to say about him”, just as you pretty much thought already.

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#16

“This week on Myria Reassures the Radish” :grin:

Thank you so so much! I really appreciate your help.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH. I did not consider that 何万 might be referring to price at all.

Okay, so I’m annoyed I wasn’t confident in my own assessment of that, but pleased that I noticed. Thank you for bringing clarity to the rest of the sentence too ^^

Ah, I didn’t actually pick up that those were headlines he was imagining. I just thought he was thinking generally about what people would realise about him. That actually makes the next sentence make much more sense :+1:

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#17

Guys I had a random grammar question thats been bugging me for a while, and I saw it again in this sentence on page 108: なんとかして、もっとカリスマボンボンを手に入れないと。
I dont exactly understand what the と at the end of the sentence does here, and I see this a lot, even in the front of sentences, like: と、(continuation of random sentence).
Can someone please explain these to me? As far as I can tell, i’d translate the original sentence to: Somehow I must obtain more charisma bonbons.

#18

This is a contraction of 〜ないといけない or 〜ないとだめだ, which is the “must” part of your translation.

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#19

Oh that makes sense, thank you! Do you also happen to know about when と is at the front of a sentence by itself?

#20

That could be the quotative particle と referencing something that came before. I can’t think of any other instance where I’ve seen と at the beginning by itself. Maybe someone else has an idea. If you have an example, that would be helpful.

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