獣の奏者 chapter 3, part 2 discussion

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Chapter 3, Part 2: 幼獣の献上、真王ヨジェ大広アルハン

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Start Date: April 11th
Previous Week: Chapter 3, part 1
Next Week: Chapter 3, part 3

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This chapter was awful for me. So hard to understand. I just wanted to make sure of what I read so I will make a kinda resume and if possible can you help me had what is missing please?

Resume

The first part is the king(maybe) of 大広 going to visit the Queen of 真王. The king is with his father. The castel is of white wall with close to no defensive structure and have grown bigger since last time he saw it.
Flashback into the past. This is where it’s getting hard to understand. 大広 comes from the survivor of a family that killed his relative by fear of rebellion. Huge war lots of death so 大広 and 真王 made peace. 真王 is taking care of administration while 大広 is the army. After some time 大広 start invading other country for wealth againsts 真王’s orders. Taking the rich land. Then some mixed bread between 真王 and 大広 appear [血の穢れ] for some reason they are rejected so they becomes assassin.The Queen and her daugther died in a fire by these assassin so the 堅き盾 are created. But there is tension between the two country because of it. like 大広 release prisoner or didn’t protect them or something like that so 真王 ask something back. A medal I think [禊の札]

The last part was easier I just did not get all the part about the heridity. It is a matrimonial system right. The oldest(or tallest maybe) girl of the Queen become the new Queen.

That chapter was really hard so as always thank you for your help

Did I say last week that I found the chapter to be hard? Hahaha, I had no clue how hard this week’s chapter is…

I liked last week’s “retell the story” quite a lot, so I will start with the first part (could not manage to get through everything yet, though)

Initially I did not mean this to be an answer to you, @icefang97 (already started this yesterday), but here you are anyways ^^
(turns out my story is pretty different from yours…)

Summary of a bit less than the first half

So we enter yet another new world. シュナン and his father, both アルハン, come to visit the king ヨジェ who lives in a small and undecorated castle in the forest that has no armament, because it is the king’s birthday. The visitors’ coach is richly ornamented so we can expect some high-ranking people here. Also, シュナン notes that the castle he grew up in is more than 50 times larger than the king’s castle.

And then we dive into the history of the place and this is not very clear to me.

Turns out that ヨジェ does not live in the forest but is enshrined there… (was this clear before? I did not realize it at all.)
Seems that the アルハン always protected this ヨジェ’s country and dirtied themselves with blood and also used the Touda in order to help this country prosper.
A long time ago ヨジェ and his family came to this place from the アフオン・ノア mountains (the mountains that Erin saw from John’s place), after the previous king’s family went extinct a long time ago due to some dramatic killings of a younger brother by his older brother which led to a long war in which the last descendants were killed. When ヨジェ and his people came to the place, there were heaps of dead bodies everywhere. With their shiny hair and golden eyes they looked like gods to the native people of that place, so they were begged to remain there. They managed to get everybody back together and rebuilt the country, which they now called リョザ神王国。
After a long time had passed, when it was the fourth generation’s king’s reign, the neighbouring country ハジャン was about to invade the country, and the king already wanted to surrender without resistance, when one of his retainers spoke up and explained that this will probably not be honoured by the enemy and that even if he did that, they would all be driven away anyway. And so, the retainer said that he wanted to purposely load guilt onto his body and leave the country to live elsewhere. In order to save the people, the retainer asked to be handed the Touda’s whistle, to which the king complied. The retainer and some friends then mounted the Toda, crossed the river, invaded ハジャン and fought and won over their army.
This retainer was called ヤマン・ハサル and was an ancestor of シュナン. He did not want to appear before the king with his bloodstained clothes, so he followed his oath and went abroad. The king was deeply impressed because through the murders the retainer had (while being aware of it) lost his right to enter アフォン・アルマ (their Heaven I guess). So the king granted him absolution and also gave him the title of アルハン and allowed him to rule over the country beyond the mountains.

The relationship between the king and the アルハン started to deteriorate a bit when it was the time of ヤマン・ハサル’s grandchild, オシク・ハサル。He had raised a big number of Touda and established the riding system, and through this power he had conquered the neighbouring countries one by one. Each time he brought some of his new wealth to the king as gift, but he refused it, saying that it was blood money, and ordered オシク to stop the invasions. But he did not follow this order because the surrounding countries were eagerly waiting for an opportunity to invade and explained that his behaviour was necessary for many reasons, especially to provide good living circumstances for the people. And after a while it turned out that indeed the people moved to the アルハン place and lived well there, while it was quite hard to live in the king’s region. At that time the people started to call the king without army ヨジェ and started to worship him. Also, they split responsibilities: The king’s region became the government, and the アルハン became the army.

Now I’m curious to learn about my misunderstandings :slight_smile:

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well this is gonna be fun. I’m pretty sure I’m in the wrong. I did not get a lot of what was happening. I also did you go into as many details as you did because I’m kinda lazy so my resume was made shorter. Your story makes more sense than mine. l’m voting for yours.

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I guess you have more confidence in my Japanese than I have :rofl:

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Yes, but I also have no confidence in my Japanese so… A mix of both

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Having read ‘a bit less than half’ myself, I dared not read your spoilers yet @icefang97, sorry. :sweat_smile:

@NicoleRauch, I did not get the part about the ヨジェ being enshrined in the forest, but rather understood that his palace was more like a shrine than a palace, since while it was well taken care of there were no decorations or riches shown off, nor soldiers or walls to protect it. And his people worshipping him as godlike, I suppose, also ties into this. The rest matches up with how I understood it as well.

I did read a bit further than what Nicole described, so I guess I’ll summarize that.

maybe a page more

So over many generations, relations between the two countries worsened again, with the 大公 resenting being looked down on by the bureaucrats dispatched by the ヨジェ and the poor citizens of ヨジェ領.
Because of this, a group called サイ・ガムル was formed, which wanted to put 大公 on the throne of リョザ神王国. This group was made up of ヨジェ who claimed the ヨジェ was what was dividing the people and stopping development, so by killing him and making an 大公 king, this would lead to betterment for the リョザ神王国.
When the king of that time, シイミヤ, was killed by assassin(s) sent by the サイ・ガムル, is when the ヨジェ started having bodyguards. シイミヤ was the grandmother of the now reigning ヨジェ.

And yeah, this week is hard! I was feeling very shaky on my understanding, but reading Nicole’s take on it and writing down my own helped a bit, I think.

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Oof, what a chapter. I definitely need to reread it. Before I read what anyone else put, I’m going to skim through it again and write what I glean from it.

Summary

シュナン, son of アルハン (a title, which シュナン will inherit), comes with his father and their retinue to the holy forest where ヨジェ lives. They have to leave their carriages at the edge of the forest because it’s a sacred space. They’re bringing many fancy presents for ヨジェ’s 60th birthday.

They reach the palace, which has lots of buildings connected by walkways, but no ramparts. This is in distinct contrast to the castle in which シュナン lives, which has formidable walls and is always heavily guarded. According to アルハン (and シュナン agrees), this place’s peaceful lack of walls and armies is due to the blood and sacrifice made through the years by アルハン and his people.

Oh man and then the history section. All right, let’s see, so a long long time ago, the ruler of this land was super paranoid and slaughtered his younger brother along with his retainers etc, but one of the younger brother’s offspring survived and started a war of revenge. The sides were pretty evenly matched and people were getting killed left and right. Eventually, both the ruler and the rival were killed in battle, and things got even more chaotic and bloody. That’s when the ancestor of ヨジェ arrived. They (later we find out: she) was accompanied by one of the 王獣 (or maybe it was just flying around above her idk), and the 闘蛇 bowed their heads to make her a bridge to walk on over the river. She was all beautiful and tall and majestic with a feeling of being pure like the gods, and people asked her to stay. She did, and she gathered all the scattered peoples to her like a mother and rebuilt the foundation of the country. For a while there was peace.

Four generations later, a neighboring country attacked. The ruler at the time didn’t want the impurity of bloodshed and didn’t fight back, but one of her retainers stopped her, saying that the people were the ones who would suffer if they lost. They said they would take on the impurity (and be the ones to fight back) and then go live elsewhere (since: impurity). To do this, they asked for the 闘蛇 whistle (or something) that controls the 闘蛇, and using it defeated the invading country. This retainer was シュナン’s ancestor.

The ruler at the time felt bad that the retainer person was tainted by the bloodshed on her behalf and could not now go to (some equivalent of heaven or something), so she gave them the thing (idk what exactly it is, maybe just a decree or something?) that meant that as long as the bloodshed was for the sake of the country, it would be washed away after dying and the person could go to (the heaven place). She gave the retainer the title of アルハン and allowed them to govern the land across the mountains. For a while there was peace again.

The grandchild of the first アルハン raised a whole bunch of 闘蛇 and started attacking neighboring countries, reaping all kinds of riches and land from it. Whenever they conquered another country they’d send the ruler an offering out of the riches, but the ruler didn’t want their bloodstained gifts, and she told them to quit with the pillaging and conquering. アルハン said it was all to the country’s benefit and thought that the ruler would come around. Some people from the ruler’s side of the mountains defected to アルハン’s side. アルハン’s people, who already lived in a fertile land where crops were easy to grow, got wealthy and started building cities, while some of the ruler’s people, who lived in mountainous land that wasn’t reliable for crops in the first place, went hungry. This finally convinced the ruler of what アルハン had said, and she accepted the gifts and used them to help her people. At some point, the ruler became known as ヨジェ.

ヨジェ still did the administrative ruling of the country, revered almost as a divinity. アルハン had control of the armies and the wealth. アルハン’s people were restless because they thought they were the ones really holding up the country with their sacrifices etc, but ヨジェ’s people looked down on them as being impure. This gave rise to a group, サイ・ガムル, that wanted to make アルハン the king of the country (which I forgot to put earlier is called リョザ神王国). They blamed ヨジェ for splitting their country up and holding it back and thought having アルハン as king would fix it.

ヨジェ and her heir started having personal guards (like what’s his face! [looks it up] イアル) when the current ヨジェ’s grandmother almost got murdered by a サイ・ガムル assassin. The palace also burned down and one of the family died in the fire, though ヨジェ and her heir were saved. This incident exposed the unrest in the divided country and shook everybody up. Even most of アルハン’s people, dissatisfied as they were, revered ヨジェ as a descendant of the gods. ヨジェ said she would rescind the thing that meant that even with bloodshed アルハン and his people could go to the heaven place, but アルハン disavowed all part of the assassination plot and said he wasn’t looking to become king. The サイ・ガムル went underground and continue aiming for the assassination of ヨジェ. Their members are infiltrated into all ranks and locations etc. History lesson complete.

Then there’s this part with シュナン thinking about himself and his dad and his younger brother and their place in the world. This part is probably what I understood the least, but it seems like there are some shady aspirations in here, and シュナン definitely has designs on セイミヤ王女. (Maybe because he likes her, but more likely he just wants to marry her for power etc, no?)

omg this will never end okay so they’re shown into the dining hall and congratulate ヨジェ on her birthday. She’s all majestic, with a royal/divine presence that she doesn’t have to embellish with pretense. シュナン makes eyes at セイミヤ, and her uncle ダミヤ makes an off-color joke about it. セイミヤ, clearly quite fond of ダミヤ, tells シュナン not to mind his meaningless silly jokes. Then there is this interlude about ヨジェ passing from mother to daughter, which means ダミヤ has no place in succession, and he lives freely and womanizes, but also travels all over the country and brings back information for ヨジェ and seems to be a trusted adviser. Also, セイミヤ’s parents passed away in an accident (OR WAS IT AN ACCIDENT okay I don’t know maybe it was). セイミヤ also relies a lot on ダミヤ but can’t enter into his relaxed ideas about life because she’s the future ヨジェ, and her future husband will be ヨジェ’s husband (and thus very powerful etc). This makes ダミヤ’s joke not super funny to アルハン and シュナン, but ヨジェ is all, enough of this, it’s my birthday! Her chamberlains, which is definitely a word I didn’t know (侍従), open up the windows. The light and wind and scent and flower petals of spring came drifting in, and it was like the entire royal garden itself was celebrating ヨジェ’s birthday.

Well, that took forever but really helped my understanding improve from my first pass through (though I still might need one more). I’m quite sure I’ve messed up some things (I anticipate reading your guys’ summaries and having realizations) so please point those out or offer alternate interpretations!

6 Likes

Do you change your approach between the first and second pass? Or does going through a second time still help without changing your approach?

I still haven’t finished even half the chapter, so I definitely won’t be able to read it twice on my own. But thankfully I get that second pass from the read aloud sessions.

Oh this is so good! Thanks all for your summaries :slight_smile:

@valkow agree with you on the double reading! I could only do my first summary because I read it twice - this clarified sooo much for me! I only read the second half once so far (and given it’s Thursday already I think it’ll do for now as the “back to the present” part was much easier).

Some remarks on Belerith and valkow summaries

@Belerith Agreed, the palace is not a shrine and the current queen is alive - that was a wrong turn I took.

Technically they are still the same country, I think, just different parts.

Oh I totally missed out on that one! That explains a lot - I was getting more and more confused, as from the first mentions of アルハン I took it to be the name of a people, but now it is used for シュナン’s father as if it were his name. So in fact it’s his title, huh. (Third option wins :slight_smile:)

I took it to be just flying around, as it was said to be a truly untameable creature, I think (but maybe I got that wrong).

Oh I totally missed the bridge part! Thank you :slight_smile:

I thought it was just some form of absolution (like washing away their sins or the like).

I thought he genuinely likes / loves her (from his thoughts of “now I will finally see her again after a year” and how his heart was beating when they approached the hall; also he is 20 and she is sweet 16, so it sounds like the right age for romance ^^)

One small thing I wanted to point out: Who is waiting for us in the dining hall, keeping an eye on the queen and the princess? Our friend イアル :wink:
(So now we finally have the connection between these two chapters!)

I don’t think the text goes into detail about the whereabouts, just that their coach crashed into a tree… but yeath, everything is imaginable.
Actually I was not aware cart crashes were a thing in the time of horse-pulled carts… maybe the horse got drunk or something.

The text also mentions that her future husband will be the father of the next queen etc, so I guess that also puts great importance on her choice.

This chapter also clarified for me why everybody is so afraid of assassins! Or maybe that was just something that occurred frequently anyways back in their day. (I just can’t help myself that whenever I read about assassins I must think of Discworld… but that’s an entirely different story.)

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@seanblue This was not how I usually do it, since I’m not usually looking to write an extended summary. Usually I just read it through again, speeding through parts I felt like I understood and combing through parts I knew I didn’t (like the carriage scene last week). This time wasn’t so different except that I didn’t comb through anything–I tried to do most of it based on memory, though with extensive reminders from skimming through the text. Therefore it helped clarify my thoughts about what was going on because I had to put it in words, and for little details I wasn’t sure about I could find help in the text. But for the one bigger chunk I didn’t understand this wasn’t as helpful. I need to read that one part one more time, but I might not have the motivation. Also, I remain jealous of the reading sessions but am glad they exist at all, so! <3

@NicoleRauch Thank you for your summary as well!

Thoughts

I think you’re right about the 王獣, and also about the absolution (though I’m less sure about the latter, lol). I hope that シュナン really is interested in ヘイミヤ for herself… but that whole section was confusing to me. His brother is disgruntled by not standing to inherit, but has ambitions, or something? His father loves his eldest son and wants everything for him, but does that include him being king? シュナン himself has a different conception of his future from what his father wants, but am I supposed to understand what that is?!

Oh yes, イアル!! I’m very interested to see how all of this fits together. I really need a refresher on the geography and peoples of this (presumably a?) continent but I’m also afraid of spoiling myself when I’m so curious to read and piece things together on my own.

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They’re at 6am pacific time now instead of 5:30am. Not that that helps much. :laughing:

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This chapter is making me tired. I only just read up to what @NicoleRauch summarized 3.5 days ago. My “understanding” matches up, in that I understood the content the same way. But I also forgot most of that information already because my vague understanding fades quickly.

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Yeah it was a bit tiring… but don’t give up! I think two or three pages after that point things will get easier and more interesting again.

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Some of it I would describe as intriguing, but it is a bit much. I feel like this 19 page chapter probably could have been streamlined a bit. Maybe a bit more “show don’t tell” would have been good here.

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I definitely missed that あるはん and ヨジェ are just titles. Somewhere in there I got to thinking it were what their people were called, and that it was 2 separate nations. When I look at it as titles, and the あるはん still answering to ヨジェ first and governing a part of one country second, it kind of makes sense again, especially the division of powers.
Maybe.

Yeah, I’m anticipating a very interesting discord session with this chapter!

Most exhausting chapter so far. :slight_smile:

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Or a very long one… :rofl:

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Why not both? :wink:

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Do you guys read the whole chapter in one go?? You might still be going by the time I wake up. :smiley:

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Yeah, we read it straight through, taking turns and asking questions as we go. Since this is a long chapter it’ll probably take an hour and a half or so. Maybe longer.

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