時をかける少女: Week 5 Discussion (Chapters 6 and 7)


#62

〜えば〜るほど is a construction that means “doing V as much as possible”

いても立ってもいられない is an expression that means you can’t stand something. You’re in turmoil, can’t bear X. You can’t stand to be! Etc.

それさえ = even that. She threw ir because she’s frustrated that even that is something she did already.


#63

Not you, this week was definitely tougher than last week.

So you think that が is a subject particle rather than “but”?

I guess the fact that 突っ立つ has two somewhat contradictory meanings:

  • to stand up abruptly; to jump to one’s feet​
  • to stand in one place, doing nothing in particular; to stand around; to stand flat-footed​

If you take it to mean the latter, along with @sigolino’s translation, I think I understand it now.


#64

Yeah. Afaik, が is only ‘but’ when post verbs and adjectives (in certain conjugations). 気持ち is a noun.

Interesting. My dictionary lists these two definitions:
①まっすぐに立つ。「松の木が一本山の頂に—つ」
②ぼんやりとして立つ。「入り口で—っていないで中へ入れよ」

Edit: weird typo


#65

@Radish8 To add to that slightly:

ば~ほど: https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/207

さえ: https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/248

さえ〜ば (from the one sentence I asked about right above you): https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/264


#66

Do you have any sources on that? Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar just says the structure is [Sentence 1] が [Sentence 2]. Though to be fair, every example sentence it gives has a verb or adjective before が as you said.

The first meaning from jisho mentions “abruptly” and “to jump to one’s feet” for some reason, even though that’s clearly not in the Japanese definition. It seems to just mean “to stand up straight”. Regardless, it’s clear to me now that the ぼんやりとして立つ meaning is the intended meaning for this sentence.


#67

I don’t. I learned it so long ago I don’t recall from where. But… experience? It’s the primary means by which I distinguish between が1 and が2, as the DOBJG would label them. Kinda like how, discussed somewhere else in the thread, you can distinguish different から based on exactly what precedes it. 名詞から、〜うから、てから.
Don’t know where I learned that either. Sorry.


#68

No worries. I’ll keep an eye out for it more when reading.


#69

The verb-ば form + verb dictionary form + ほど often means “the more you X…” Or in this case, “The more I think about it…”


#70

And so we continue…


#71

I just finished the chapter. I probably have a couple sentences I want to break down and clarify, but my general thoughts…

I kinda saw something like this coming, based on 1. the disaster being a fire, and 2. the emphasis on how nearly everything else throughout the day was exactly the same. But still, I like where it’s going. I also liked seeing Gorou and Kazuo’s reactions to her confession because it made them feel a little more like actual people. We’ve been given descriptions of them, but there haven’t been many instances where we could see their traits in action (besides the stuff in the science lab, really). Being able to understand how Gorou is responding and actually dislike him as a person makes me feel like I’m progressing in my Japanese :laughing:


#72

Page 46, Tsubasa Bunko version:

予言を的中させるため、和子自身が火をつけたなどと、いいだしかねないではないか!

To me, this sounds like, “Starting the fire herself in order to make her prediction come true was something that she wasn’t capable of!” But the いいだしかねない is confusing to me, so I’m not sure.

In general, I thought these two chapters were more difficult than the others, I think because of sentences being longer and/or a little more complex.


#73

When かねない is attached to something it means that something might happen (usually a bad thing). That’s maybe a bit counterintuitive, at least I used to think so (being negative and all).

So いいだしかねない = 言いだしかねない = might say/could say


#74

I guess Tae Kim can be a source but.


#75

Thank you, and to @seanblue and @SleepyOne!

Oh man, only just finished chapter 6 and I already have quite a few questions. At least chapter 7 is a bit shorter…


Page 36 Tsubasa Bunko ed.

She’s considering who to go and talk to:

しかし五郎は、むこう意気だけは強くてしっかりしているようにみえるが、じつはたいへん気が弱くて、しかもそそっかし屋だということを和子は知っている。

Haaaalp. I’m mostly confused by むこう意気だけは. The 強くてしっかりしている bit I assume means strong and… level-headed? But I’m not sure what だけ is doing here (as discussed before, does it here sort of mean ‘to the extent of’, like ‘to the point of aggressiveness he appeared like he was strong and level-headed’?), nor why we’ve got は hanging around again.

Jisho says だけは can mean ‘at least’, but I’m not certain how you’d actually use it.


Page 37

The lavender interlude:

南ヨーロッパ産のその木には、うすむらさき色のにおいのよい花が咲いていて、香水の原料になるのはその花だよと、和夫の父が教えてくれた。

Where do I start… Does よい花 literally mean ‘good flowers’, in the sense that the plant produces good flowers for fragrance?
Now, うすむらさき色 can apparently mean either light purple or orchid. The flowers presumably are light purple, but I get lost amongst the のs. Good flowers of fragrance of purple? The smell of orchids? Nani?!
Finally… だよと?

If someone could give a literal translation of the whole sentence I’d be very grateful.


Page 38

五郎はそういって、たくましげに自分でうなずいて見せた。

Just unsure what げに means here.


Page 39

和夫も五郎も、和子の話のあまりのきみょうさに、笑ったりするどころではなく、息をのんで耳をすましていた。

Not sure what (たりする)どころ means - I can’t quite work out how you use it in a sentence from Jisho’s definition, though I can infer the overall meaning of the sentence.


Page 40

Kazuo says to Gorou: まちたまえ

and I have no idea what that means :grin: wait, you?

Then Gorou’s last piece of dialogue on that page: そんなばかなこと、あっていいはずがないじゃないか?

Not sure overall what this says: how はず and いい and so on are interlinking.


Page 42

Gorou says えんぎでもない - ??? This isn’t a play?

this was soooooo many questions :bowing_man:


#76

In kanji it’s 向こう意気 and you can find it on jisho meaning “aggressiveness” or “combativeness”. だけは can mostly be seen as “at least” like you found on Jisho. It might help you to see the は as the “emphasizing” は: His aggressiveness is 強くて, other things might or might not be. In other words, at least his aggressiveness is.

It’s not よい花, it’s においのよい花. においのよい is modifying 花, not よい, so it’s “flowers that smell good”.

Now, I don’t think it makes much sense to have a fragrance of purple, so I’m going to assume it’s divided as 「うすむらさき色」の「においのよい花」:sweat_smile:

The と here is just the quotation mark. His father said 「香水の原料になるのはその花だよ」(not necessarily exactly in these words) and his speech is just being quoted.

げ (in kanji it’s 気) in this context means more or less the same thing as そう, to my understanding. So you can read this as たくましそう until you get used to it (I’m not certain if there’s any great difference in nuance)

There’s two separate things going on here. ~たり~たりする is a construction used to say “doing such things as ~ and ~”, but in this particular case the list has only one action. どころではない I’m not really sure how to explain, sorry :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

たまえ is one of a million ways to make requests, so he’s asking Gorou to wait.

More like “I’m not acting” (I’m not looking at the book, so I don’t see the context, but it’s usually used with this meaning)

Edit: I’m sorry, that’s completely wrong. Just take a look at this: https://jisho.org/search/えんぎでもない

Well, that’s what I can help with, someone else may help with what’s missing.


#77

I had a double take the first time there too. :joy:


#78

It’s hard for me to translate this in a way that makes sense because むこう意気が強い is an expression meaning that you have that strong, unyielding spirit, but the expression is divided with だけは which makes a literal and natural translation difficult. But I guess I’d say that while he looks (and maybe is) unyielding at least (unwilling to lose to anyone) … だけ is “only” of course, and the は is constrasting - it lets you know ahead of time that while his 向こう意気 is strong, something else isn’t. Which it then explains - he’s actually easily shaken.

I see @sigolino has already answered so I’ll skim for what wasn’t covered
skim

笑ったりするどころではなく means it’s no laughing matter. Not a situation to laugh in. Or like, laughing was the last thing on their mind.

そんなばかなこと = that kind of crazy/stupid thing あってもいい = okay to exisy はずがない = no way, couldn’t possibly be じゃないか? = right?

There’s no way that such a crazy thing could actually exist, is there!?


#79

Could somebody please clarify who’s talking here?.. boy this will always confuse me
Page 39 Kadokawa

Gorou is looking in the phone book for the 精神病院, Kazuo snatches it off him. Who starts talking? At first I thought it was Gorou because it says 「芳山君が、かわいそうだよ。」 but then there’s 「自分の友だち…かつぎこむつもりのか!」.

If Gorou was talking then かわいそう would mean that he feels sorry for Kazuko (because he thinks she’s gone mental), where as if Kazuo was talking it would be like saying “Poor Kazuko (because Gorou’s being super rude)”, right? So Kazuo is speaking?.. :sweat:


#80

Yes, its is Kazuo who says 「おい、よ、よせよ。芳山君が、かわいそうだよ。君は自分の友だちを、キチガイ病院へかつぎこむつもりなのか!」

I think your second interpretation is correct, that Kazuo feels bad for Kazuko. Based on this, he then says to Gorou something along the lines of do you really intend to commit your friend to a mental hospital

The next line is Gorou responding 「そんなこといったって……」


#81

Thank you!~

Trying to catch up :stuck_out_tongue: