So, I understand the difference (kind of, I feel like the line is blurred, personally) in English… but one half of 昔話 means “once upon a time”… which is how every fairy tale (in English) begins…
… So does “fairy tale” work as a synonym of 昔話？ (I just got it wrong, it was likely my single burn in the pile of over 100 reviews.) Am I wrong to associate it with fairy tale? I immediately recognize 童話 as fairy tale… and have nearly always (pretty sure this is the first time I’ve gotten the meaning wrong) called this folk tale…
But how much of there is a difference in Japanese? Am I really wrong? Are they synonymous - or even close to synonymous?
Could @mamimumason or someone else please weigh in?
Very interested to learn the difference - and hopefully not make this mistake again.
童話 would be the word for fairy tale. While some fairy tales can be considered a folk tale, not all folklore is a fairy tail. Folklore is simply stories passed down from generation to generation whereas fairy tales are stories that usually include fantasy or magical elements.
The distinction in English is that while both have their origins in oral tradition, fairy tales involve magical creatures and such, while folk tales do not. I’ve no idea if the difference is the same in Japanese, but I doubt it - the Hukumusume website uses 昔話 for the Japanese and international stories, which frequently involve magical creatures, and 童話 for the Aesop’s Fables, which typically do not.
Side note, 昔 just means “long ago”. “Once upon a time” is 昔々.
To add to the mix I looked up おとぎ話 in the Reikoku iPad dictionary I have and its definition is this:
子どもに聞かせるむかし話や童話。
So it seems to define おとぎ話 as being stories that are told to children where 昔話 and 童話 are examples of said stories.
Just for comparison, this is what it states for 童話:
子どものために作られた物語。
例 アンデルセンの童話。
With the example being a reference to the stories of Hans Christian Anderson. This seems to be a pretty clear reference that the word encompasses what, at least for westerners, are traditional fairy tales.
And then 昔話:
ずっと前にあったことについての話。
例 おじいさんの昔話はおもしろい。
Second definition:
古くからつたわってきた話。民話や伝説など。
Neither definition seems to have any direct reference to fairy tales like with 童話. And the second definition even says “folklore, legends, etc.” neither of which are necessarily fairy tales per se. And the reference to “folklore and legends” lines up exactly to two of the meanings that WK gives the word. It also aligns to the fact that WK nor do other J-E dictionaries, use fairy tale in their definitions of 昔話.
Also as to verify using a non-JMDict based J-E dictionary, I looked up both 昔話 and 童話 in my Kenkyusha J-E dictionay and only the definition of 童話 had fairy tale listed.
昔話 (むかしばなし) = an old tale (including folk take/fairy tale), a legend, stories of one’s past.
御伽話 (おとぎばなし) = a fairy tale (but can be translated as an old tale too)
メルヘン童話 (めるへんどうわ) = a fairy tale for children
童話 (どうわ) = a children’s story (including folk tale, fairy tale)
民話 (みんわ) = a folk tale, a legend
