夜カフェ ☕ Chapter 11 (Beginner Book Club)

夜カフェ :coffee: Chapter 11 (Beginner Book Club)

Start date current chapter: 18 June 2022
Previous chapter: 10
Next chapter: 12
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We are reading the first volume of 夜カフェ as the Beginner Book Club!.
This thread is for chapter related discussion. We are reading together from the aforementioned date on, but this thread will be kept open mu~ch longer (like 10 years longer). So don’t be shy to ask questions even if you are late to the party :heart:

Vocabulary List

Feel free to add any words you looked up as well! Page numbers may be off by one or two because of differences between physical and digital editions, but we try to keep the words roughly in order of appearance

The book is also available over at koohi.cafe (formerly known as floflo).

Discussion Guidelines

  • Please blur / hide any major events in the current week’s pages (however early they occur), like so: [spoiler]texthere[/spoiler] result: texthere
  • When asking for help, please mention the page number, and check before posting that your question hasn’t already been asked
  • Join the conversation — it’s fun!

Participation poll

  • I’m reading along
  • I’m planning to read but haven’t started yet
  • I’m from the future and reading way later
  • I’ve read ahead already/read the book before
  • I’m not reading, just passing by

0 voters

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Page 133

だから、たとえば、ひとりで夕ご飯を食べている子からスタートして、一人百円にするとか…。
I’m not sure I understand how they are going to charge money. It seems like Aiko is saying that they charge each child 100 yen. But does ひとりで夕ご飯を食べている really just mean “each”? That seems like a lot of words just to express that. I feel like there are shorter ways to express “each”, like 各 or 各自, but maybe those aren’t appropriate for this situation? Or maybe this long way of saying it is an idiomatic way of saying it?

Or is it something like, kids that are eating alone have to pay, and kids that are eating together don’t? Like, a way to get the kids to eat together, going along with the point of the place being for people to eat together? But that seems kind of weird, because if all goes according to plan, and the kids all eat in groups, then they can’t charge any money, and they can’t keep going right?

Maybe I’m overthinking, and it is just that each kid has to pay 100 yen. Or maybe she’s going into detail about the fact that kids that are eating pay, with the idea that kids can go to talk or hang out for free?

Also, this isn’t really a Japanese language question, but I also am having trouble understanding the idea of this restaurant for elementary school students being open from 6-8pm. Isn’t that kind of late for elementary school kids to be out on their own? I guess the reason they were worried about Risa was because it was around 9, so maybe 6-8 is okay?

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I could be way off....

I have 3 pages left to finish this chapter but that section did catch me off guard and I finally settled on the idea that the meals should not be free but they shouldn’t be too expensive (in it for the money only)… basically a small reasonable sum that kids could afford…

ひとりで (by person) that is eating dinner… not quite each but I would say that you thinking about people that might just come to hang out wouldn’t have to pay anything [although that is never outright stated] though it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities (but then I wonder why kids would go during dinner time and not eat at least a little something…especially between 6 and 8 … kids eat a lot!)

I also got the feeling she is thinking out loud that 100 yen is not a money making venture but a break even (or slightly more than that) amount that will let them continue their night cafe…

but like I said…I could be way off… 3 pages left :slight_smile:

edit: came to this conclusion after there was an indication that the text was a highlight of what happened more than a detailed discussion… こんふうにして話し合いは進み、だいたいのことは決まった。

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I didn't quite get that either.

ひとりで夕ご飯を食べている子 seems to be a pretty straightforward “child(ren) eating dinner alone”
一人百円 - I believe this is a standard “a hundred yen per person”
What throws me is the (から)スタートして. Does it mean “start from children eating alone and make it 100 yen each”? But why start from there?
Could it mean, charge children who eat alone a 100 yen each at the start? (so it’s just a one-off fee?). But then what is から doing?

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my impression was “start” as at the beginning… at the onset of starting the cafe… nothing more… see how it goes and then adjust from there…

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Page 133

So, the emphasis was really on the small amount of money per child, which should be affordable to children, but enough for them to be able to keep the lights on? Yeah, I think that makes sense.

I also agree with your later comment that “start” refers to when the cafe starts up. I’m imagining that they would see how their expenses are and see if they need to increase the price or not.

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Thoughts on time

Now that you mention it it’s a bit strange.
The time itself is not strange to me, since they are inside a controlled place at this hour.
BUT they do have to get home somehow. So either the parents have to go get them (seems unreasonable since the parents are probably not around at this hour or there would be no need to go to the cafè). They would have to escort the children home one by one (seems excessive but maybe?). Or the children would have to walk home alone in the middle of the night (not the best idea it seems??)

Hmm thank you for mentioning this fact, hadn’t thought about that dilemma ^^.

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aamunoz et al

I don’t have my book with me, but I think maybe the から is throwing you off, when the real clause connector is the -te form. So I believe what she’s saying here is (loosely) “let’s start with kids who eat dinner alone (at home without their family) and, maybe each person pays one hundred yen.”

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Oh, that makes perfect sense! Thanks for the insight! That does make me wonder about the good questions @downtimes brought up though. How are those kids going to get back home? I guess we’ll find out in the coming chapters.

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On page 82 (Digital) 「だからもう一度相談にのってくれないかな」what is the 「にのって」here exactly?

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It’s に plus the verb 乗る. 相談に乗る means to give advice.

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Phew - regarding understanding this was probably my worst chapter so far. There are sooooo many sentences that are currently marked red and await another read to see if I can figure them out properly or whether I have to ask here! Here’s my first batch of questions:

ebook page 125:

  • それはそれで、うれしいことだけど、あんなに生意気言って、うちを出てきちゃって、まだ一か月にもならないっていうのに、またまたお願いっていうのもなあ……。
    • The にも is “not even”, right? “It hasn’t even become one month”?
    • What’s the のもなあ is it の (make the fragment before a noun) + も (even/as far as?) + なあ (isn’t it?)?
    • …so, like “…even though it hasn’t even been one month [since I’ve been cheeky and left the house], I’d go so far as to asking for help once again, right?

ebook page 126:

  • 愛子さんは私立に行ったからって、のがれられるとはかぎらない、みたいなことを言ってたけど。+
    When Aiko was talking about it previously in chapter 3 or so, I thought she meant that “going to a private school is not the only way to escape”, but now in this context I’m wondering if のがれられるとはかぎらない is more akin to “even if you go to a private school, you might not be able to escape [the bullying]”? If so… how does it work? Is it something like “[the outcome] is not restricted to being able to escape”, implying possible failure?

ebook page 127:

  • コーヒーカップをふきんでふきながら、愛子さんは考え考え、ゆっくりと話す。
    I guess 考え考え is the continuative stem form of 考える twice, something like “while thinking and thinking”?

ebook page 128:

  • 「もうっ、あんたたちって、おかしいんだからっ。」 愛子さんは笑いだした。涙を流しながら笑った。「なんだか、わたし、物わかりが悪い、がんこババアみたいじゃないの。」
    I’m not completely sure what exactly Aiko is saying here. Is it something like "All of you, because you’re being weird… …I somehow feel like I’m an old hag that doesn’t understand things"?

New grammar that I learned!

ebook page 127:

  • ティナちゃんは、早く話せとばかりに、あたしのこしのあたりをひじでつっついた。
    とばかりに
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に is part of になる, and も is emphasis. Your translation sounds good.
またまたお願いっていうのもなあ
I think his part can be translated pretty directly:
to (の) also (も) request something else again, well… (なあ)
I think なあ is the thinking aloud なあ. leaving the sentence unfinished in a way that it’s clear to understand the meaning.

“Even though it’s not even a month since I so cheekily left home, to once again ask for something, well…”

According to he Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns, とはかぎらない means “it is not always the case that” and implies that there is an exception to a situation or state of affairs generally considered to be true. In my head, I also always treat it like you suggest, as “it’s not restricted to”.

That’s how I understood it too, yes.

おかしい can also mean funny. I tend to think it’s something in between. “Jeez, you’re a funny lot, you” or something. I don’t think there’s a “feel like” in the sentence, maybe more of a “you make me look like”. “It’s somehow like I’m some dim-witted stubborn old hag”

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Thanks, @omk3, that all makes a lot of sense to me!

Here’s a few more questions.

ebook page 130:

  • うちこそ親がお金を出せばいいんだわ。
    Is that こそ “in particular”? “It would be good if my household’s mother in particular pays.”?
  • 姉はずっと優等生だったし、なにをするのも積極的で、まわりの人気者だったから、両親ともに姉にはあまかった
    • Is なにをするのも積極的で “whatever she did, it was (seen as) positive”? Or “whatever she did, she was very active”?
    • 両親ともに - “both of my parents”?
    • 姉にはあまかった - totally not sure about this. What’s the には? How does あまかった fit in?
  • イギリスにいるあいだに父が亡くなったんだけど、帰ってみたら、わたしあての長い手紙があって、それを読んだら、父は、いつもボーッとしてて、なにを考えているかわからないわたしのことを、ほんとうに心配してくれてたんだってことがわかったの。
    いつもボーッとしてて、なにを考えているかわからないわたしのこと - is that “[my father was really worried about] the me that was always in a daze and did not understand what he was thinking”?
  • とはいっても、ひとりの人間なんだし……。
    • Is that とは definition 1 or 5?
    • And I guess ひとりの人間 is a phrase that means something like “just a human”?
    • The し is a “besides/moreover”?
The usual 'new grammar/slang that I already figured out by myself' section

ebook page 129:

  • お父さんなりの愛情かもしれないわよ。
    なりの
  • だから、あまり悪くとっちゃダメよ。
    とっちゃ is probably とっては
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According to the Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns again, Noun+こそ “emphasizes a certain thing, giving it the meaning “it is this and nothing else”.”
So I guess something like “It is my parents who should pay”

積極的 seems to carry the nuance of assertive, proactive more than just positive in the sense of good, so I tend to think that なにをするのも積極的で might mean “she being assertive/positive in whatever she did”
両親ともに - Yes, that’s how I understand it
On 甘い, it carries all sorts of (metaphorical) meanings apart from just sweet. (see def. 4 on Jisho). In this sense, judging from the example sentences, it’s used with に, and は is there for contrast I suppose.

They were both lenient/indulgent with her (and not me).

Yes, that’s how I understood it too. Although, I’m not entirely sure if it could also be interpreted as “he didn’t know what I was thinking” instead…

Definition 1, I’d say. と is quoting, as there’s the いっても right after, and は is there for contrast and topic setting. Awkwardly put, “Speaking of this topic called ‘parents’…”. I agree with the rest of your translation. し can be often ignored in translation, I found. It is used to list reasons, so adding it at the end makes this a sentence that sort of explains what was said before.

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Thanks for your answers, again!

Yeah, I also felt like “he didn’t know what I was thinking” makes a lot more sense, but what tripped me up was…

  • いつもボーッとしてて (わたし is the subject)
  • なにを考えているかわからない (わたし would be the object, I thought)

But I just realized that わかる is this weird intransitive “be known” verb, e.g. 彼は日本語がわからない, so maybe it actually works? Like…

  • 彼は[わたしがいつもボーッとしてて、なにを考えているか]わからない。
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Just finished up chapter 11 (I suppose I’ve finally caught up somewhat) but I have a few questions:

(Page 83 digital)
  • Is 「ていく」in 「ティナちゃんは泊まっていくことになった] this? If so, I’m not sure how it fits into the sentence.
  • Yamato says 「おやじのやつ」, I assume 「やつ」 is the 1st/3rd definition here?
  • 「悔しそうな表情のヤマトくんに、愛子さんは言う」 I assume Yamato joined the discussion when they were amid discussing money, thinking that he was causing Aiko-san money trouble, and thus was embarrassed?
  • In 「あまり悪くとっちゃだめよ」 is 「悪くとっちゃ」 an expression or a contraction of something?
    (Speaking of contractions, I remember someone shared a page with many common contractions a while ago, unfortunately it seems I didn’t save it. Does anyone remember it or have a similar resource?
One more question about the last couple of pages

The last thing Aiko-san talked about was a nearby farm run by an old man who doesn’t sell his produce, and (anyone/Aiko-san) is free to take whatever they want? I couldn’t understand much else (if at all) and especially the part about kids and the poster. Could someone give a quick overview of this part?

But yeah, I suppose we finally found out where 夜カフェ comes from huh.

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That’s how I took it too.

I think he’s frustrated because he was just talking about how he thinks that his father was so happy that Yamato is at Aiko’s (implying that he’s glad to be rid of Yamato) that he even offered to pay food expenses to Aiko-san.

ちゃだめ is a casual form of てはいけない.

If it was me it was probably Japanese Colloquial abbreviations, if it was someone else there’s a good chance it was Quick Contraction Reference.

Starting with what you talked about, here's the gist of the group conversation
  • They want to put up a poster in the cafe to get neighborhood kids to come to their Night Cafe event.
  • They’ll start with a few kids around elementary school.
  • They’re gonna take a small bit of money (probably 100 yen per person) to make sure that they don’t have to stop if a lot of kids come, and to make the kids not feel like they’re just taking without giving anything.
  • Staff roles: Saki and Yamato are cooking (and Aiko, if she has time), Tina and Hanabi are talking to the kids.

Can’t help you with the ていく question. I practically never understand it when it’s not related to motion, and I usually feel like I can just pretend it isn’t there and the sentence is just fine.

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Ah sorry, I didn’t specify it but I was asking about the 「悔しそう」part, and why he was embarrased

Both are very helpful

I see, that clears things up

No worries about that
And thank you for all the help!

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悔しそう is 悔しい (“frustrated (over a failure, humiliation or injustice); annoyed; chagrined; (bitterly) disappointed; bitter; vexed; frustrating; annoying; regrettable​”) + そう (looking like). He had a facial expression that looked like he was frustrated/annoyed/disappointed/bitter.

I don’t think he’s embarrassed in that sentence.

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