Tofugu, Tae Kim’s guide and Wikipedia all at least seem to say so.
I personally subscribe to the idea that every single piece of information in a sentence past the verb (and potentially the noun in a Yです sentence) is followed by a particle.
Okay I’ve been working at translating this for a few days and it was going pretty well with some struggle situations coming up here and there but I managed to push through without too much issue. That was until I got to pages 14 & 15 that is just kinda broke me and I needed to take a break and get some clarification so hopefully you guys can help clear up some of the confusion.
Page 9
起きたら生えてたの:
- 起 is the kanji to wake up
- 生 in this usage means sprout or grow
- たら is a particle that means “if/when”
- たの is a sentence ender that adds emphasis
So I can deduce the sentence translates to “When I woke up they had sprouted” but I have no idea what the て is doing in this sentence? It’s usually used as a “and” usage but it’s at the end of the sentence so I’m confused.
Page 11
あんた半分人間じゃないしな:
- あんた means you
- 半分 means half
- 人間 means humanity/humankind/etc.
- じゃない is negative present tense
- some googling showed me that しな is the し explanation particle & な is the “rougher” more casual version of sentence ending ね so しな is meant to be a rough casual way of emphasizing some explanation given.
All together to me it reads “You’re not half human” but apparently it’s read as “Half of you isn’t human.” How am I supposed to read it so that it interprets that way?
Page 12
まさか一晩で生えるとは:
- This one was really difficult because apparently can apparently be written as 正か but it almost always written in kana? But it means “It can’t be true/no way/don’t tell me.”
- 一晩 means one night
- 生える means to grow or sprout
- とは is a sentence ender that usually implies shock or surprise.
So the sentence translates to “Don’t tell me it grew in one night.” But I once again don’t know what the で is doing here?
じゃあこれ何のツノなの…?:
- じゃあ means “Then/well then,”
- これ means this
- 何 means what
- ツノ means horn
- なの means “is that so?”
But I have NO idea how I’m supposed to piece this sentence together. According to other posts in this thread it’s supposed to mean “Well then, what kind of horns are these then?” But I have no clue how you turn the pieces of that sentence into that translated end result
Page 13
I’m really confused by the third speech bubble on this page. it says 龍って and then cuts to the next line and says 何 and from what I gather, if a line “breaks” it usually denotes a new sentence. I couldn’t find out how that sentence could make sense as “龍って何” but is it simply saying “Did you say dragon? What?” Because I would assume past on previous panels it would be formatted a little differently like the 何 Kanji being in it’s own separate speech bubble with bigger font?
別称じゃなくて:
- 別称 means synonym
- じゃなくて I’m not clear on. It’s the negative て form. じゃない is negative, got it. But the くて I’m confused on. The word ending in い and therefore we cut that off and put くて on the end makes total sense, but I’m not sure why it’s here in the first place. The くて on the end here usually means “and” so じゃなくて would mean “not and” but nothing happens further here? It’s just the end of the sentence.
It apparently translates to “Don’t give me another synonym” but the only thing I’d be able to assume is it says “not a synonym” but I would still be completely clueless what the くて would mean?
Page 14
ハーフなのよ:
- I know that ハーフ is a word that’s read hafu and basically means a mixed person. Usually as in half Japanese half another ethnicity but in this case it’s half human half dragon.
- I am stumped on the なのよ though. な is usually a connecting particle for adjectives but I don’t think that’s what’s going on here. It might be a shortened version of ない meaning a negative as if to say she’s not a hafu?
- の has tons of different usages but maybe it’s meant to be the emphatic particle used to double down on よ’s emphatic meaning?
- But then I started second guessing the whole sentence because I don’t know if this is it’s own standalone sentence or if it’s just a continuation of the previous sentence? I am struggling to tell sometimes when a break is just a break because or if it denotes a new sentence?
- So in this case does this speech bubble have 2 or 3 sentences?
Lastly it wasn’t until a second read through that I realized this isn’t the daughter talking but the mom. The speech bubble isn’t aimed directly at anyone but looks far more like it’s pointing to the daughter than someone off screen. Was this obvious to anyone else this was supposed to be the mom talking?
何なの: Apparently this is it’s own unique translation of “What’s up with” and it’s made me realize there is A LOT of “unique” words that are tied to 何 with different particles. Is there a good resource to teach them all because I feel like this is gonna be a common trend.
This is definitely where things really started falling apart for me rapidly.
言おう言おうとは思ってたんだけどね:
- 言おう is the volitional form of to speak
- I’m assuming the と is being used as the quotation particle quoting the thought of 言おう言おう
- は is here to be the topic marking particle
- 思 is Kanji for “think” which is why I think と is the quoting particle and means the mom is thinking “tell her, tell her/talk to her, talk to her”
- I have absolutely no clue what the hell the rest of this sentence says or means. たんだけどね, I tried googling them separately, together, in chunks, I got so many varying answers and meaning for each part I had no clue where to start to assume. I Tried looking to what others have said on here about this section but all I was given was a direct translation and not a breakdown or explanation of this part.
そうだな: Apparently this translates to “that’s right.” that’s what translator apps say, that’s what online dictionaries say, but I’m confused why this is the case since そうだ is kana for “that is so/That’s right” and な is thrown on the end of words to make it negative, but it’s apparently the positive form? why is that?
無理に教えることでもないかなって:
無理に教えることでもないかなって:
- 無理 means unreasonable and unjustifiable and に particles usually turn something into an adverb version of itself or, unreasonably/unjustifiably
- 教える means to teach
- こと is both a kana version of 事 which is frequently written in kana, but it’s also a nominalization particle? It’s put on at the end of a verb to make it into a noun so I’m not sure if it’s meant to be a kana written version of 事 in this case? Or if it’s mean to nominalize 教える here?
- でもない was one I had to google but apparently it’s an expression that means “is not… either” But I also know でも means “but” and “ない” is a negative modifier so it could also mean “but not”? But even more confusing is that after a little more googling I also came across までもない. That one translates to “There is no need to/should hardly be necessary to” which in the current context makes A LOT more sense so, is THAT the actual thing being said but the ま is omitted here for some reason?
- かな is being used here as the sentence ending structure that means “I wonder…”
- って is the casual form of a quotation particle
So all together we have
- 無理に教えること would be teaching/educating unjustifiable/unreasonably
- でもないかなって is quoting someting saying “I wonder if it’s even necessary to…”
- Combined it seems to mean “I wonder if it’s even necessary to teach this for no reason.”
そうだな:
- そう means appears that
- However そうだ is kana for “That is so/That’s right” according to what I’ve seen in this thread??
- だ usually makes something declarative, and from what I’ve seen, ない is frequently shortened to な, so why doesn’t it make it negative to change it’s meaning to “that isn’t so/That’s not right” then what is the な doing here?
Edit: I apparently deleted the second half of my post for Page 14 before I posted so I re-added it
Page 9
生えてた is short for 生えていた. It’s used for marking a resulting state: By the time she woke up, the state was “they have sprouted”.
Page 11
I think that し is the “giving reasons” one.
Apart from that the sentence is fairly straight forward. Maybe it makes more sense if I say it means “It’s because (し) ‘a half’ of you is not human (半分人間じゃない), isn’t it (ね)”?
I agree that it could also mean “You are not half human”, but that doesn’t make sense in context.
Page 9
It’s ~ていた, but the い is often omitted in casual speech.
Page 11
Some particles have been omitted here (casual speech!), but just think of it as あんた半分 half of you 人間じゃない is not human.
Page 12
Particle that indicates time of action - i.e. roughly equivalent to the “in” in “in one night”.
何の = what kind of. Also, some particles are omitted, as per usual. Does that give you enough to piece it together?
Page 13
Yep, that’s pretty much it.
じゃなくて is a construction that’s quite frequently with a meaning something like “the answer you just gave me is not the one I was looking for”. That feels a bit awkward, but I’m trying to translate a gut feeling into words here. So yeah, 別称じゃなくて is, yeah, “Don’t give me a synonym. That’s not what I was asking (and you know it)” sort of thing. (You can also use it to correct something you’ve misspoken.)
Page 14
It’s のです, but it’s casual so the です has been omitted, and the structure requires a な when being appended on a noun. There’s a なの further up which is the same thing too.
One sentence. “You are a human-and-dragon half(breed)”, to translate it somewhat literally.
This is ~ていた as before + のです as before which becomes んだ in casual form + けど. The whole sentence is something like “I’ll tell (her) about it… or so I’d think, but…”
Did you run out of puff?
~ない makes things negative … but な is more like a short form for ~なあ which is more like a general emphasis marker (in this instance).
i wanted to mention also that this is another interesting case of i generally think ruridragon (and yotsuba, maybe non non biyori etc) is on the easy side of difficulty once you are used to slang. a lot of what you are having difficulty with is something you’re going to see again and again with anything that has school-age kids in it (or casual chatter between, eg people living together); it just happens that this is probably among your first exposure to it so you’re struggling a bit now.
Rest assured, it’s hard now, but if you keep reading widely this kind of thing will become second nature
I apparently deleted half the issues I had with page 14 before I posted so I’ll post them here in hopes for feedback lol
page14
無理に教えることでもないかなって:
- 無理 means unreasonable and unjustifiable and に particles usually turn something into an adverb version of itself or, unreasonably/unjustifiably
- 教える means to teach
- こと is both a kana version of 事 which is frequently written in kana, but it’s also a nominalization particle? It’s put on at the end of a verb to make it into a noun so I’m not sure if it’s meant to be a kana written version of 事 in this case? Or if it’s mean to nominalize 教える here?
- でもない was one I had to google but apparently it’s an expression that means “is not… either” But I also know でも means “but” and “ない” is a negative modifier so it could also mean “but not”? But even more confusing is that after a little more googling I also came across までもない. That one translates to “There is no need to/should hardly be necessary to” which in the current context makes A LOT more sense so, is THAT the actual thing being said but the ま is omitted here for some reason?
- かな is being used here as the sentence ending structure that means “I wonder…”
- って is the casual form of a quotation particle
So all together we have
- 無理に教えること would be teaching/educating unjustifiable/unreasonably
- でもないかなって is quoting someting saying “I wonder if it’s even necessary to…”
- Combined it seems to mean “I wonder if it’s even necessary to teach this for no reason.”
そうだな:
- そう means appears that
- However そうだ is kana for “That is so/That’s right” according to what I’ve seen in this thread??
- だ usually makes something declarative, and from what I’ve seen, ない is frequently shortened to な, so why doesn’t it make it negative to change it’s meaning to “that isn’t so/That’s not right” then what is the な doing here?
p14
This is meaning 3. of 無理 here, “forcibly”
this is actually the “to tell” meaning
both, it’s both nominalizing and it’s the 事. Personally I like to think of this as saying “thing” after the partial sentence before it, “A forcibly told thing”.
It’s actually だ, as in the copula, but in the て form, making it で, since も requires て form, and ない just the usual “isn’t”. It means roughly “And it isn’t X”.
JLPT N4 Grammar: ても (temo) Meaning – JLPTsensei.com
There is an omitted (probably) 思った (thought) after this.
The full sentence thus translates roughly to:
I thought it isn’t something to tell forcibly maybe
Or I’d translate it as
I thought that maybe I shouldn’t force it on you
It’s a set phrase
そうだ - “it is like that”
the な is an emphasis sentence ending particle (JLPT N5 Grammar: なあ/な (naa /na) particle meaning – JLPTsensei.com)
“Ah I see” is what I’d translate it as
Thank you for the thorough response! Most of it is clear now. As for the few that I’m still unsure on
On page 14, What is the の doing that’s connecting と and ハーフ? I don’t think it’s being possessive here, and it’s not being emphatic?
You said that のです becomes んだ. I know の and ん are kinda interchangeable in these use cases, but I’m not sure how です becomes だ. As far as I know です is the polite casual usage, but だ is usually used in more firm declarative uses and is more professional and proper uses. So I’m not sure why です turns into だ in this instance?
Hmmm that’s good to know. I do want to know that stuff but perhaps it might be better to take a break from this for a while then since this is my first attempt at reading a manga ever. I imagine reading something that’s a bit more proper with it’s writing might be a better starting point for me.
ハーフ is half-blood, so a 人と龍とのハーフ is a “human and dragon half blood”. It’s the usual possessive particle.
だ is just the casual form of です, which is the polite form, nothing about firm or declarative uses.
oh duh, that second part makes sense. It’s funny how when you’re learning so many things at once and have to sift through so many possible grammar meanings you tend to overlook the stuff you learn that’s basically day 1 lessons lol. Thank you
I think it’s OK to push through, and try to get used to it. This was my first manga too. I used that thread a lot back then:
Also have you noticed that there’s a grammar spreadsheet with reference of grammar points and where they are used? Could help you with understanding the sentences
Can I offer you a bit of ちいさな森のオオカミちゃん ・ The Wolf of the Small Forest book club! 🌳 (Absolute Beginner Book Club) in these trying times? It’s cute and it’s almost as easy as it gets for a first manga.
Ruri Dragon will still be there when you get back.
(It’ll also still be hard when you get back; you’ll learn a lot reading オオカミちゃん, but the casual/slang here will still trip you up. When it comes to that, there really is no way but pushing through.)
Oh dear god, thank you for the contraction thread, that’s gonna come in handy. And I will likely come back to Ruri, it’ll be good experience with learning casual conversational talk. But I feel like I’ll do better off reading something that’s grammatically proper to help me understand it’s usage in normal context and once that becomes more familiar, THEN I can start learning casual speech where it’s omitted and I may be able to grasp it better.
And yeah I didn’t see the grammar list until after I posted all my write ups lol. Probably would have been helpful while I sas reading lol.
Thank you! I just got the most recent absolute beginner level manga that’s currently being read so I’m gonna see if reading along with people will help. If it doesn’t click I’ll try this one next.
I can’t remember if there are that many ‘gramatically proper’ manga (etc) that are also easy to read. Maybe Happiness? You gotta love horror/gore for that one though.
Happiness wasn’t really easy to read per se, just incredibly light on text. The first couple of pages especially acted as a huge wall for a beginner to break through.
Totally see what you mean, I went through the same feelings
Can recommend Satori Reader, I know that helped me a lot. Also if you want the whole list of what helped me a lot might as well share here the whole post I wrote about it rather than just quote it incompletely From 0 to Reading Everyday: Step by Step and Comprehensive List of Resources