キノの旅 Week 5 Discussion

Japanese Language Reading
#1

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キノの旅 Home Thread

Chapter 3

Kino's Journey
61WR5Xe1RnL.jpg838×1200 123 KB

Start Date: April 6
Previous Chapter: Week 4
Next Chapter: Week 6

Week 5 Reading: Chapter 3
Until p. 97 (end of chapter)

Word lists - Learn the vocabulary for キノの旅!

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キノの旅 Home Thread (Intermediate Book Club)
#2

Guide to Chapter 3’s dialogue

As the title of the chapter says, it features three male characters. They use some words/particles that I hadn’t seen before, so I got some help from a native speaker to “translate” them back into standard Japanese.

Words/Particles
  1. わし = 私, used by older men
  2. 〜とる = 〜ている, casual speech, not limited to only older men
  3. 〜くれんかの = くれないか, かの is very casual, used by older men or those in a manual labor job
  4. じゃ = だ, used by older men
  5. な ≈ ね, very casual speech, used by males in general, not just older men
  6. にゃあ (Man 1 #6) = には, older man speech
  7. にゃあ (Man 1 #9) = This one is different, it’s equivalent to the なければ in なければいけない. It’s not limited to older men, it seems like a regional accent very generally around the 四国 area.
  8. かのう = かなあ
  9. 〜とらん = 〜ていない, negative version of #2, again not limited to older men
  10. すまんがのう = すみませんでした,
  11. 〜きに = no meaning, old casual way of speaking. Might find in anime or manga
  12. よろしゅう = よろしく, very casual, used by older men or manual laborers. Maybe used today depending on the person
  13. でのう = でね
  14. ちと = ちょっと, male language used by older men or manual laborers
  15. じゃき = だから, not limited to older men, 四国 regional variant
  16. 〜おれんて = いられないって casual male speech
  17. ええ = いい, casual male speech
  18. りゃあ = たら
  19. どうってこたない = どうってことない, meaning is 大したことない, “not important.”
  20. だい = の at the end of a sentence. Used back in the samurai age, both men and women

Sentences
Man 1

  1. pg 87, 5th line from the end:
    ああ、わしがやっとるんじゃよ。 =
    ああ、私がやっているんだよ。

  2. pg 88, 4th line:
    モトラドさんを一旦レールから出してくれんかの？ =
    モトラドさんを一旦レールから出してくれないか？

  3. pg 88, 5th line from the end:
    それが仕事なんじゃな。 =
    それが仕事なんだな。

  4. pg 88, 2nd to last line:
    ああ、そうじゃ。もうずっとこれをやっとる。 =
    ああ、そうだ。もうずっとこれをやっている。

  5. pg 89, 4th line:
    50年ほどじゃ。 =
    50年ほどだ。

  6. pg 89, 8th line:
    正確にゃあわからないけど、たぶんそんくれいじゃ。わしは冬だけ数えたから。 =
    正確にはわからないけど、たぶんそのくれいだ。私は冬だけ数えたから。

  7. pg 89, 7th line from the end:
    鉄道会社に入ってな。。。磨くように言われたんじゃ。まだやめろと言われてないのでな、こうして続けてるんじゃ。 =
    鉄道会社に入ってな。。。磨くように言われたんだ。まだやめろと言われてないのでな、こうして続けてるんだ。

  8. pg 89, 3rd from the end:
    ああ、わしにはその頃すでに妻と子供がいてな。 =
    ああ、私にはその頃すでに妻と子供がいてな。

  9. (continuation):
    食わしていかにゃあいけなかったんじゃ。 =
    食わしていかなければいけなかったんだ。

  10. (continuation):
    今どうしているかのう。 =
    今どうしているかなあ。

  11. (continuation):
    わしの給料は出てるはずじゃ。
    わしの給料は出てるはずだ。

  12. (continuation):
    暮らしには困っとらんとは思うが。
    暮らしには困っていないとは思うが。

  13. pg 90, 3rd line:
    どこにいかれるんじゃ？
    どこに行かれるんだ？


Man 2

  1. pg 92, line 4:
    すまんがのう、リヤカーは退けられないきに。
    すみませんでした、リヤカーは退けられないきに。

    そちらさんでよろしゅう頼む。 =
    そちらさんでよろしく頼む。

  2. pg 93, line 1:
    仕事でのう。 =
    仕事でね。

    一人でずっとやっとるよ。 =
    一人でずっとやっているよ。

    枕木も取っ払うきに。 =
    枕木も取っ払う。

  3. pg 93, line 6:
    ちとよく分からん =
    ちょっとよくわからない

  4. pg 93, line 8-9:
    十六の時に鉄道会社に入社して、もういらないから取り壊すように命令されて、初仕事じゃき、張り切ってやっとるんよ。 =
    十六の時に鉄道会社に入社して、もういらないから取り壊すように命令されて、初仕事だから、張り切ってやっているんよ。

  5. pg 93, line 13-14:
    ああ。わしには弟が５人もいてなあ。 =
    ああ。私には弟が５人もいてねえ

    あいつらの食い扶持を稼ぐためじゃ。 =
    あいつらの食い扶持を稼ぐためだ。

    休んでなんかはおれんて。 =
    休んでなんかはいられないって

  6. pg 94, line 2:
    ああ、ずっとじゃ。 =
    ああ、ずっとだ。

    不思議じゃのう。 =
    不思議だねえ。

    しかし、おかげで外しやすくてええよ。 =
    しかし、おかげで外しやすくていいよ。


Man 3

  1. pg 96, 7th line from the end:
    なに、慣れりゃあどうってこたないよ。
    なに、慣れたらどうってことないよ。

  2. pg 97, line 3
    ちと計算苦手でね =
    ちょっと計算苦手でね

  3. pg 97, second to last line:
    旅人さんはどこへ行くんだい。
    旅人さんはどこへ行くの。

I think this is everything. This isn’t a list of all the men’s dialogue, but it should cover all the individual words/particles they use. The list of sentences should give a feel for how the words are used so the rest of the dialogue is more understandable. In the words list, the usage explanation for 8, 13, and 18 somehow slipped by so if you’re familiar with their usages, let me know and I can fill it out.

I hope this helps someone! These are the quick impressions of one native speaker, so if I made any mistakes or am missing some crucial info, let me know and I can add it to the post.

21 Likes
#3

So, finally more than one extra character? Nice!

8 Likes
#4

いやぁ、お疲れ様でした・・・

That was fast.

2 Likes
#5

I really this chapter, because the structure of the dialogs is three times very simmilar. For beginners like me that’s just great!
And besided that I loved the story! I’s so simply told, but actually it’s quite philosophic. I did spent plenty of time thinking about the topic <3

And when I read the chapter the first time (I’m trying to preread the stuff two weeks in beforehand), I totally did not recognize the strange/ very regional speech of the old men. Seems like I’m getting better in filtering the important parts of the sentence and just subconsciousnessly ignoring the other parts (which is excactly the ability I want to train).

8 Likes
#6

I really liked this weeks chapter. The repetition of the descriptions was useful to learn the vocabulary, and although the dialogue used some anachronistic language, somehow it was easy to follow. The storyline somehow reminded me of

> Sisyphus

1 Like
#7

Didn’t know we’re supposed to read the whole chapter until I finished it and realized it was a small one! This one felt very easy in comparison to the previous one.

7 Likes
#8

Wow, yeah, that one was fast. I only had to look up about a dozen words, too.

1 Like
#9

As other pointed out, quite a delightful chapter. The repetition of situation and sentences with slight variation helped a lot.

Two questions (sorry, I own a digital edition, I don’t have the page number)

Just after getting out of the forest :
キノが百八回目の方角確認を終えて走り出すと、進行方向の黒と緑の間に、白線が混ざった。

I was just wondering about the choice of 108 here. Is it just to say it’s a big number, like the English set expression “for the hundreth/thousandth time” ? But 108 in Japan I think is associated to the number of desire in Buddhism (like for example at new year, temples ring their bell 108 times to get rid of the 108 desires) but I don’t really see the connection here… Maybe just to say it was really hard ?

それがキノに見える限り、ずっと続いていた。(それが refers to the track, in the previous sentence)
The only way I can make sense of this is by translating as “As far as Kino could see, it (the track) continued forever”. But I’m really confused by the grammar here. キノに見える, usually にみえる would mean (it) looks/seems like Kino. (Like for example 彼は忙しそうにみえる = he looks busy) So what’s going on ?

2 Likes
#10

I believe when に見える is used with a noun, it’s usually preceded by のよう (emphasis on usually). And even if it wasn’t, I feel like because there’s a 限り that we’re supposed to tell from context what it means. But if someone can explain it grammatically then that would be cool.

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#11

If I understand your question, 見える is intransitive so the thing seeming or being seen would be before the が or は particle like in your example, and the thing is being seen by the person behind に, kino. In your example I think に is being used as “in that way”/“in a way that he looks busy” I think. I don’t really remember and I don’t know where I’d double check this info, so if anyone else could pitch in please.

1 Like
#12

Finally reading a bunch after not reading for several days for absolutely no reason.

I mostly understand the old man because he talks a lot like old people around here, but I gotta read it aloud. I can’t get it right if I just read in my head. XD

6 Likes
#13

Hey, I also started now after not reading for no reason :joy: nice

3 Likes
#14

Procrastination party! I just caught up with where I would be if I’d been reading every day properly.

Now I gotta stop to fix dinner and my husband’s bento for tomorrow.

For some reason I’m looking up significantly fewer words than usual this chapter and feel like a genius, so I’m probably gonna start reading some more after food prep is complete and get ahead.

7 Likes
#15

That is how I felt about this weeks chapter.

Then I decided to read ahead to the next chapter and well…

1 Like
#16

Yay! I just joined you in finishing early! :sparkles:

1 Like
#17

I have finished the chapter as well.
Thanks to cerv for explaining the old men’s phrases. They were confusing, especially “困っとらんとは思うが”.

2 Likes
#18

I have a few questions again.

Q1 page 88, line 4

悪いが、あのリヤカーは簡単にはどかせられんでな。

What is the dictionary form of the verb in this sentence and what form is it in the sentence?

This is my guess:
退く → 退かせる → 退かせられる → 退かせられない
dict → causative → causative + potential → neg causative + potential
Literal meaning = unable to cause the train car to move out of the way

Is this correct? If so, why not just use 退かす? Is it just for the lulz or is it because 退く is a common word and 退かす is not? (according to jisho)


Q2, page 90, 6th line after the break

昨日のお爺さんさまさまだね。

Is さまさま this definition? (honorific for someone who has “bestowed grace upon you”) If so, why does it come after さん instead of replacing it?


Q3 page 91, 3rd to last line

少し体を傾いだ。

Why is を + 傾ぐ used if 傾ぐ is intransitive?


Q4 page 93, last line

レール、長年使ってないわりには、ずいぶんきれいですよね。

What does わりには mean?


Q5 page 97, 10th line, at the end

俺は三人分稼がないと。

What’s the reading of 分 here?

General discussion question: Are the men all still being paid for their work? The second man said his paycheck should be coming soon, I think. Have they been duped into useless labor or is the government unorganized?

Thanks!

1 Like
#19

Q1. I think it is 退かす -> 退かせる (potential) -> 退かせられる (passive) → 退かせられない (“cannot be moved out of the way”)

Q4. わりには means “although”.

General: The second man just thinks that his family should receive the paycheck soon, but he never returned to the home town to confirm it. Of course nobody pays them.

2 Likes
#20

ぶん

I think they all assume they are still being paid, but they have no way to check.

Random things I liked about this chapter

  1. This exchange
    K: ぼくは森の中を走るのは、あまり好きじゃない。なんでだかわかるかい。
    H: 毛虫かい?

    :bug: :joy:

  2. the concept of 髭も伸び放題

8 Likes